Alternative to circumcision. 100% effective.
10 Sep 2012, 11:23 am
Vexcalibur wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
So what of comparisons of men circumcised neonatally and uncircumcised men. How does their sensitivity compare?
It is not possible duh.
It looks to me like you did not bother to read what I posted. The study I linked after that statement was specific to the comparison of measurable response in neonatally circumcised men and in uncircumcised men.
Quote:
You could CNP this about EVERY study regarding circumcision, including the ones about the supposed health benefits.
Of course, we need some context into why is this being researched at all. There were groups of crazy people so desperate of feeling special to other groups that they would incur into this bizare practice of chopping penises away. And then in the 1800s, in America some clerics wanted to make it popular again in an attempt to save the world from masturbation. This is the very stupid reason we have so much scientific literature about whether or not chopping the tip of your penis makes you feel more satisfaction or not. How proud of mankind does this make me!
Just a bit of clarification, I am in no way saying that the guys who invented circumcision are not any better than the guys who invented this:
[img cut]
Oh wait, I am actually saying that: The guys who invented circumcision are not any better than the Mursi guys up there. In such desperate attempts to feel like the center of the universe. That you have been chosen by this deity. It is no wonder so many tribes did so many stupid things. But just because our favorite tries used to do stupid things, it does not mean we should keep on doing them. We have grown out of most of those ridiculous practices. Whilst the solution of ancient Jews to people randomly and mysteriously dying would be to pick a goat male and expel him from town (The literal origin of the word escape goat) Our solution to that sort of thing is a little more sophisticated and effective.
On the medical benefits. Maybe they are true, maybe not, I am not qualified to assess the studies (But I think that for people too lazy and irresponsible to care about personal hygiene it is a huge health benefit that they would not have to remember to clean one thing themselves ) but to me that's an irrelevant question. There are tons and tons of things we could do to certainly reduce disease rates, that does not mean we should do them nor that they are good ideas. This thread's castration is a great straw man precisely because that (100% STD reduction is not that great, is it?). We can always take the civilized path and ask adults to opt-in for circumcision themselves if they really can't help it and are too lazy. But not oblige children into it and instead teach them to clean their cursed penises and use condoms. Although maybe ruveyn is right and our culture is too full of stupidity that makes us unable to teach children to use contraception and clean up our penises.
And of course, there is the little problem that if we were to admit that circumcision has benefits in reducing STD rates. That even the most optimistic studies say 60%. I am sorry, but if I used a condom I would get 97% effectiveness. Regardless of whatever theoretical loss of sexual pleasure there might be, what is true is that circumcision - Like any other surgical procedure - has risks. The way our more modern solution is actually more effective, makes me think that health is not really a good reason to do it. So in regards to my own body, I am not going to get myself circumcised any time soon. (Regardless, the culture down here is that non-cut is the norm, so ...)
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Edit : It occurs to me that if the Mursi guys won the cultural lottery and became the dominant trend. We would have so many studies and controversy about the health pros and cons of putting dishes in your mouth to stretch your lips. It would have been far more entertaining.
Of course, we need some context into why is this being researched at all. There were groups of crazy people so desperate of feeling special to other groups that they would incur into this bizare practice of chopping penises away. And then in the 1800s, in America some clerics wanted to make it popular again in an attempt to save the world from masturbation. This is the very stupid reason we have so much scientific literature about whether or not chopping the tip of your penis makes you feel more satisfaction or not. How proud of mankind does this make me!
Just a bit of clarification, I am in no way saying that the guys who invented circumcision are not any better than the guys who invented this:
[img cut]
Oh wait, I am actually saying that: The guys who invented circumcision are not any better than the Mursi guys up there. In such desperate attempts to feel like the center of the universe. That you have been chosen by this deity. It is no wonder so many tribes did so many stupid things. But just because our favorite tries used to do stupid things, it does not mean we should keep on doing them. We have grown out of most of those ridiculous practices. Whilst the solution of ancient Jews to people randomly and mysteriously dying would be to pick a goat male and expel him from town (The literal origin of the word escape goat) Our solution to that sort of thing is a little more sophisticated and effective.
On the medical benefits. Maybe they are true, maybe not, I am not qualified to assess the studies (But I think that for people too lazy and irresponsible to care about personal hygiene it is a huge health benefit that they would not have to remember to clean one thing themselves ) but to me that's an irrelevant question. There are tons and tons of things we could do to certainly reduce disease rates, that does not mean we should do them nor that they are good ideas. This thread's castration is a great straw man precisely because that (100% STD reduction is not that great, is it?). We can always take the civilized path and ask adults to opt-in for circumcision themselves if they really can't help it and are too lazy. But not oblige children into it and instead teach them to clean their cursed penises and use condoms. Although maybe ruveyn is right and our culture is too full of stupidity that makes us unable to teach children to use contraception and clean up our penises.
And of course, there is the little problem that if we were to admit that circumcision has benefits in reducing STD rates. That even the most optimistic studies say 60%. I am sorry, but if I used a condom I would get 97% effectiveness. Regardless of whatever theoretical loss of sexual pleasure there might be, what is true is that circumcision - Like any other surgical procedure - has risks. The way our more modern solution is actually more effective, makes me think that health is not really a good reason to do it. So in regards to my own body, I am not going to get myself circumcised any time soon. (Regardless, the culture down here is that non-cut is the norm, so ...)
--------
Edit : It occurs to me that if the Mursi guys won the cultural lottery and became the dominant trend. We would have so many studies and controversy about the health pros and cons of putting dishes in your mouth to stretch your lips. It would have been far more entertaining.
None of which serves to respond to my position which is that this is a decision best left to parents. That there are medical benefits is undeniable--which strongly indicates that condom use and proper hygiene are not as widely practiced as they ought to be. I have never suggested for a moment that circumcision is a substitute for good hygiene and condom use--but the fact that there are better options out there does not diminish the benefits of circumcision. But even if there are medical benefits, they are marginal, and insufficient to tip the scales. And the cases of sexual disorders in adult men circumcised as infants are equally insufficient to tip the scales.
Meanwhile, what is the point of your move into the realm of cultural arrogance? We are attempting to have an rational discussion of circumcision and then you start demonizing the cultures that routinely practice it. This rather implies that your opposition to circumcision is not based on any rational argument, but rather is linked to cultural prejudice. This might not be the case, but the evidence certainly suggests that you're a bigot rather than a critical thinker. I look forward to being proved wrong on that particular point.
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--James
