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Mikkel
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26 Nov 2012, 3:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
knowbody15 wrote:
Religions each offer their own truth, which negates all other religions truths. Some religions require other truths to be destroyed or changed, other religions contain their truth to just them, and without impediment of the rest of society. This is played out within the various mechanics of each religion. That is the most objective and non offensive way I think I can describe this lol


Not a single major religion is based on empirically verifiable claims. They are nonsense insofar as they assert their claims are true.

ruveyn


That is not only a problem for religion. Any human, who to the effect of objective ethics make truth claims about ethics, claims nonsense.
In other words external empirically verifiable claims about ethics are nonsense.



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26 Nov 2012, 3:30 am

superboyian wrote:
It wouldn't necessarily be a good life without knowing your creator, it would just be impossible. How can a clay make itself? It just simply can't. Even though you can't physically see God which is why you would say He is an imaginary friend but spiritually, he is around but he lives outside time. It is better to know your safe rather than sorry. :)

Anyway, I can't really force you at the end of the day since God has given each of us a free will to do whatever we want at the end of the day. I hope I don't lose faith either.


If it's a matter of "better safe than sorry," then you're only pretending to "believe" out of fear of what will happen if you don't. That's not true belief. Also, I find it incredibly stupid that god makes us all the way we are, and yet he sends homosexuals to hell to suffer... Sexuality is NOT a choice. In order for it to be a choice, that means one must be equally sexually attracted to both genders. I know I'm not attracted to males, and I was never given a choice. My sexuality was always an uncontrollable reflex. It went like this: eyes see tits, dick gets hard, desire to insert dick in vagina ensues. Surely I'm not the only one who never had to choose... And why the hell would someone choose to be put down their whole lives? And if it's as simple as just choosing, why then, don't gay people, upon discovering how cruel this world can be to them, just rethink their decision and start going after the opposite sex?



Mikkel
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26 Nov 2012, 3:37 am

DerStadtschutz wrote:
superboyian wrote:
It wouldn't necessarily be a good life without knowing your creator, it would just be impossible. How can a clay make itself? It just simply can't. Even though you can't physically see God which is why you would say He is an imaginary friend but spiritually, he is around but he lives outside time. It is better to know your safe rather than sorry. :)

Anyway, I can't really force you at the end of the day since God has given each of us a free will to do whatever we want at the end of the day. I hope I don't lose faith either.


If it's a matter of "better safe than sorry," then you're only pretending to "believe" out of fear of what will happen if you don't. That's not true belief. Also, I find it incredibly stupid that god makes us all the way we are, and yet he sends homosexuals to hell to suffer... Sexuality is NOT a choice. In order for it to be a choice, that means one must be equally sexually attracted to both genders. I know I'm not attracted to males, and I was never given a choice. My sexuality was always an uncontrollable reflex. It went like this: eyes see tits, dick gets hard, desire to insert dick in vagina ensues. Surely I'm not the only one who never had to choose... And why the hell would someone choose to be put down their whole lives? And if it's as simple as just choosing, why then, don't gay people, upon discovering how cruel this world can be to them, just rethink their decision and start going after the opposite sex?


As to sex the moment you get into the T as in LBGT any notion of God created man and woman breaks down, because God created hetero, bi, homo and transgender. The latter means an outward appearing man with the mind/brain of a woman or the reverse.



ruveyn
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26 Nov 2012, 11:23 am

Mikkel wrote:

That is not only a problem for religion. Any human, who to the effect of objective ethics make truth claims about ethics, claims nonsense.
In other words external empirically verifiable claims about ethics are nonsense.


Partially correct. One can see which ethical systems lead to a fairly rapid breakdown of the society in which they are practiced. The axiom here is: if an ethical system is not compatible with social stability it is flawed and should be discarded. This is a purely pragmatic approach to ethics.

In general there are many ethical judgements and few (if any) ethical facts.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

That is not only a problem for religion. Any human, who to the effect of objective ethics make truth claims about ethics, claims nonsense.
In other words external empirically verifiable claims about ethics are nonsense.


Partially correct. One can see which ethical systems lead to a fairly rapid breakdown of the society in which they are practiced. The axiom here is: if an ethical system is not compatible with social stability it is flawed and should be discarded. This is a purely pragmatic approach to ethics.

In general there are many ethical judgements and few (if any) ethical facts.

ruveyn


The bold part - to loose to mean anything.



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26 Nov 2012, 11:26 am

Mikkel wrote:

The bold part - to loose to mean anything.


If something is broken, either fix it or toss it.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:31 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

The bold part - to loose to mean anything.


If something is broken, either fix it or toss it.

ruveyn


If something as a thing is broken, you have external verifiable observations. Society is not a thing, to treat society as a thing is the fallacy of reification.



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26 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

The bold part - to loose to mean anything.


If something is broken, either fix it or toss it.

ruveyn


If something as a thing is broken, you have external verifiable observations. Society is not a thing, to treat society as a thing is the fallacy of reification.


O.K.. Society is a process or condition. What ever. If a moral system leads to its breakdown then the moral system either has to be discarded or repaired. Humans want to live in some measure of piece and security and living in society (as opposed to being hermits) assures us of a degree of security and safety.

ruveyn



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26 Nov 2012, 11:36 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

The bold part - to loose to mean anything.


If something is broken, either fix it or toss it.

ruveyn


If something as a thing is broken, you have external verifiable observations. Society is not a thing, to treat society as a thing is the fallacy of reification.


O.K.. Society is a process or condition. What ever. If a moral system leads to its breakdown then the moral system either has to be discarded or repaired. Humans want to live in some measure of piece and security and living in society (as opposed to being hermits) assures us of a degree of security and safety.

ruveyn


More later - the wife is making dinner. :)



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02 Dec 2012, 5:40 pm

Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Mikkel wrote:

The bold part - to loose to mean anything.


If something is broken, either fix it or toss it.

ruveyn


If something as a thing is broken, you have external verifiable observations. Society is not a thing, to treat society as a thing is the fallacy of reification.


O.K.. Society is a process or condition. What ever. If a moral system leads to its breakdown then the moral system either has to be discarded or repaired. Humans want to live in some measure of piece and security and living in society (as opposed to being hermits) assures us of a degree of security and safety.

ruveyn


More later - the wife is making dinner. :)

Well it is later now, so go on, please?
I hope your dinner was good :)


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03 Dec 2012, 4:13 am

Mikkel wrote:
As to sex the moment you get into the T as in LBGT any notion of God created man and woman breaks down, because God created hetero, bi, homo and transgender. The latter means an outward appearing man with the mind/brain of a woman or the reverse.


See, I just reject this idea regardless of my religious beliefs. This implies that a woman thinks one way and a man thinks another way, not even as a general rule, but that certain personality traits are exclusively male or exclusively female, or things like that. Of course, if you're talking about the actual physical difference between the brains of men and women, that's another thing entirely, but adding the word "mind" makes me think it's not what you meant.

Or, to rephrase for clarity, your gender is based on your body, thinking there are "male minds" and "female minds" is to insist on absolute gender differences. To take that a step farther, how do you know what makes someone mentally male or female? Is it one difference? A combination of things?



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03 Dec 2012, 4:17 pm

Christianity and Islam would not be major world religions if they did not insist on spreading. To spread your religion means to push someone else's religion out, so conflict on a theological level is basically mandated. If we all agreed to never, ever convert to anything, sure, we could live in peace. Good luck convincing Christians and Muslims to stop saving souls though.



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03 Dec 2012, 8:22 pm

Buddhists, even during Siddhartha Gautama's lifetime, were sending out 'missionaries'...he found 'The Way' or 'ThePath' meditating under the Bo tree...
Hinduism has always, always actively spread their faith; what was 'The Maharishi (Mahesh Yogi), famous during the 1960's, if not a missionary of Hinduism?
Mithraism was spread all through Europe and the British Isles by the Army of Rome.
Even Quakers, the 'Quiet People', spoke on street corners, even stood up in church services to express their beliefs!
All people who have found the faith that is right for them wants to share something that makes them happy, and gives their lives meaning.

Sylkat



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04 Dec 2012, 12:20 am

DerStadtschutz wrote:
superboyian wrote:
It wouldn't necessarily be a good life without knowing your creator, it would just be impossible. How can a clay make itself? It just simply can't. Even though you can't physically see God which is why you would say He is an imaginary friend but spiritually, he is around but he lives outside time. It is better to know your safe rather than sorry. :)

Anyway, I can't really force you at the end of the day since God has given each of us a free will to do whatever we want at the end of the day. I hope I don't lose faith either.


If it's a matter of "better safe than sorry," then you're only pretending to "believe" out of fear of what will happen if you don't. That's not true belief. Also, I find it incredibly stupid that god makes us all the way we are, and yet he sends homosexuals to hell to suffer... Sexuality is NOT a choice. In order for it to be a choice, that means one must be equally sexually attracted to both genders. I know I'm not attracted to males, and I was never given a choice. My sexuality was always an uncontrollable reflex. It went like this: eyes see tits, dick gets hard, desire to insert dick in vagina ensues. Surely I'm not the only one who never had to choose... And why the hell would someone choose to be put down their whole lives? And if it's as simple as just choosing, why then, don't gay people, upon discovering how cruel this world can be to them, just rethink their decision and start going after the opposite sex?


What about those people all of a sudden who choose of their own will to change which sex their attracted too?
I have known gays, and bi people who have choosen to go straight and not just for public "eye". In other words they really changed themselves to go straight on the inside.


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04 Dec 2012, 12:23 am

Evinceo wrote:
Christianity and Islam would not be major world religions if they did not insist on spreading. To spread your religion means to push someone else's religion out, so conflict on a theological level is basically mandated. If we all agreed to never, ever convert to anything, sure, we could live in peace. Good luck convincing Christians and Muslims to stop saving souls though.

What about those who intermingle with other religions? (As in get married, have kids etc). Wouldnt converting to nothing, be really converting to something, which is converting to nothing? :P


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04 Dec 2012, 1:28 am

Keniichi wrote:
Evinceo wrote:
Christianity and Islam would not be major world religions if they did not insist on spreading. To spread your religion means to push someone else's religion out, so conflict on a theological level is basically mandated. If we all agreed to never, ever convert to anything, sure, we could live in peace. Good luck convincing Christians and Muslims to stop saving souls though.

What about those who intermingle with other religions? (As in get married, have kids etc). Wouldnt converting to nothing, be really converting to something, which is converting to nothing? :P


I'm not counting reproduction in this statement. I'm merely saying that the major religions are major because they insist on spreading, and that this spreading causes tension. I don't see what intermingling has to do with this?