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iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2013, 5:04 pm

adb wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
A person is not free when he not only cannot speak freely for much of the day when he works but also when he cannot speak freely outside of work for fear of "embarassing the employer" .. to say, well, there's no right to a job, then in other words for people at the bottom, they're never free. To eat, they have to trade away their freedom. I suppose they're "free" to do that. Why not just live in a dictatorship? It's more honest.

Karl Marx was right; when survival comes into play, a person is not free. The solution is a guaranteed income for all to cover survival. People no longer need be enslaved to survive.


More honest, but to a worse degree too. I'd like to see something different where rights are adhered to and loophole seeking for the abolishment of rights is punished, but the state not being in complete control of everything. IDK. Everything gets too complex after a while, but simplicity is often simply crap. I just want the freedom to say that I'm tired and not have to pretend I'm not a pessimist. Heck, I'd really like to work as a manager at my job and just hide away from the customers - that's would be an excellent job for an introvert!

Why don't you start your own business?


I'd like to start my own business, or more particularly write science fiction and historical fiction novels.



iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

If I could afford the investment ever, I'd probably want to farm primarily and write when there isn't much other work to do.



adb
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15 Jan 2013, 5:25 pm

Make a plan and start working toward that goal. There's no reason you can't achieve it if you set your mind to it. Plus it'll make the BS of having a job a lot more tolerable.



AgentPalpatine
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15 Jan 2013, 5:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I would gladly work on my own producing food as a farmer, using geothermal wells and other power sources for electricity, and building my own homes and habitats if I could just do that without having so many fees and taxes for every little thing.


You're not the only one who has that concept. I put up a more recent Aspie community thread, through my ideas run more towards having an Aspie neighborhood.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt215426.html

There's more recent activity in the Aspie Urban community thread.


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Dox47
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15 Jan 2013, 5:45 pm

Employers are just collections of people, not inanimate entities, and they have their own rights, including freedom of association. Their responsibility, and right, is to make the best decisions for the good of the business, and that means hiring and retaining employees that benefit the business and removing those that do not. No one should be forced to retain a bad employee, whether "bad" means poor work ethic, chronic tardiness/absenteeism, or alienating customers by their words or behavior. The 1st Amendment protects your speech from the government, no one else, and unless you're blowing a particular whistle or reporting a crime, there is no "retaliation" in an employer acting against you for speech that is detrimental to their business if you also happen to work for them.


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15 Jan 2013, 5:55 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I would gladly work on my own producing food as a farmer, using geothermal wells and other power sources for electricity, and building my own homes and habitats if I could just do that without having so many fees and taxes for every little thing.

So the solution to a government made problem is... more government? :p Government is not the answer to the problem, government *is* the problem...

If you want to start writing novels, start writing novels. You obviously have a computer, and a decent word processing program is free, as is signing up for Kindle Direct Publishing. These days, making money off writing doesn't cost anything but time spent writing and encouraging people to buy your stories. You might only make a few dollars off each novel sale, but you could maybe earn a dozen or so thousand dollars in total (I haven't made anything yet, but then again I haven't put more than a couple of shorts up on KDP - search Tobias Holbrook in the Kindle store). Save it up, and maybe you'll be able to buy a small piece of land and work towards your other goal.

I still don't get why energy still costs money though. We don't get charged a fee for the use of atmospheric oxygen for ourselves and our vehicles, but water and energy - things which are also provided for free by nature - are charged on a continuing basis. Why can't we each have collectively owned solar power systems in nearspace which beam all the electricity we need down to us, and use some of that to squeeze fresh water from the seas, rivers, and air? Combine that with affordable tiny homes, and we've only got food left as an ongoing cost - a cost which, at this point, should be easily met by the gardens (forest or otherwise) which everyone ought to have...



iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2013, 6:15 pm

adb wrote:
Make a plan and start working toward that goal. There's no reason you can't achieve it if you set your mind to it. Plus it'll make the BS of having a job a lot more tolerable.


The difficulty is in seeing how to get from A to B, without getting trapped in loan shark country or other extortion schemes. Being trapped in retail is my current state, and I just don't see any certain way out yet.



thomas81
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15 Jan 2013, 6:18 pm

Magneto wrote:
Eh? Employees do have the right to say what they like. Their employer also has the right to fire them if they disagree.

It don't see how that is hard to understand...


Precisely.

when someone weilds that sort of economic and social power over you, its sort of hard to argue that free speech exists in the private sector.

Your freedom to speak exists in as far as your ability to find alternative work.


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iamnotaparakeet
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15 Jan 2013, 6:20 pm

Magneto wrote:
If you want to start writing novels, start writing novels. You obviously have a computer, and a decent word processing program is free, as is signing up for Kindle Direct Publishing. These days, making money off writing doesn't cost anything but time spent writing and encouraging people to buy your stories. You might only make a few dollars off each novel sale, but you could maybe earn a dozen or so thousand dollars in total (I haven't made anything yet, but then again I haven't put more than a couple of shorts up on KDP - search Tobias Holbrook in the Kindle store). Save it up, and maybe you'll be able to buy a small piece of land and work towards your other goal.


Thanks for the advice and suggestions, I really appreciate them.

Magneto wrote:
I still don't get why energy still costs money though. We don't get charged a fee for the use of atmospheric oxygen for ourselves and our vehicles, but water and energy - things which are also provided for free by nature - are charged on a continuing basis. Why can't we each have collectively owned solar power systems in nearspace which beam all the electricity we need down to us, and use some of that to squeeze fresh water from the seas, rivers, and air? Combine that with affordable tiny homes, and we've only got food left as an ongoing cost - a cost which, at this point, should be easily met by the gardens (forest or otherwise) which everyone ought to have...


If it can be billed it will be?



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15 Jan 2013, 7:14 pm

Air doesn't cost much. At least in countries with clean air laws, that is... energy literally falls from the sky, intermittently but reliably, at a maximum rate of 1.4kW per square meter, though the normal rate when it reaches the ground is probably closer to 1-200W per square meter. If you intercept it in nearspace, though, you can get significant increases in the amount you capture, collecting maybe 25W per square meter of collector when you average over the entire 24 day and account for inefficiencies. Still, a hectare of such solar collecting airships could provide you with 250kW, which is enough to sustain a small settlement. By comparison, planting a hectare of potatoes could provide you with enough food for said small settlement, and could be planted directly under the (very small at this point) shadow of your nearspace power plant. Store up energy during the day, and when it's cold at night use it to power the compressors to squeeze clean water out of the air, if you're in an area without reliable water.

Anyway, rambling over. To the other tangent of this thread, may I present to you a Cracked.com article - 6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You A Better Person.



xenon13
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15 Jan 2013, 9:48 pm

adb wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
A person is not free when he not only cannot speak freely for much of the day when he works but also when he cannot speak freely outside of work for fear of "embarassing the employer" .. to say, well, there's no right to a job, then in other words for people at the bottom, they're never free. To eat, they have to trade away their freedom. I suppose they're "free" to do that. Why not just live in a dictatorship? It's more honest.

Karl Marx was right; when survival comes into play, a person is not free. The solution is a guaranteed income for all to cover survival. People no longer need be enslaved to survive.

You have to produce to survive. If nothing is produced, you will be unable to consume and consequently, you will die. There is no slavery here and no sacrifice of freedom. It's the nature of life. Each individual has basic consumption needs in order to stay alive.

Labor is not the same as production. You can do a lot of work without producing anything. But if you fail to produce, you won't get rewarded with the products (or money for products) that you need to survive.

If you want to be employed by an organization, you can exchange your labor for money. Then you can spend the money on the consumer goods you need to survive. You don't have to labor for someone else's production. You can produce for yourself. You are free to choose.

There is no such thing as guaranteed income. Any attempt to guarantee income is masking the act of taking from producers and distributing it. So basically, you're endorsing slavery... forcing the people who produce to carry the weight of those who don't produce. Eventually, the people who produce are going to stop production because it's easier to be a non-producer. It's not sustainable.



Produce to survive? Most production is done with very few people because of automation financed by the people. The people therefore have the right to the fruits of that technology. There is no scarcity that justifies making people slaves. If everyone's contribution was so badly needed, why is there a Reserve Army of Labour that must amount to at least 5% of the population of people wanting to work? That's the law of NAIRU that has been followed since 1980 or so. This NAIRU rate sometimes is higher if it's a more right wing person...