Did Israel cause genocide on Ethiopians?

Post Reply New Topic

I hate having to sound like a defender of Israel, but just think what would have become of the Arabs, not only in the West Bank and Gaza, but in Israel too. A Jewish state conducted under the same moral standards as Iran, Saudi Arabia ("the absolute moral anus of the universe", no less), Sudan, Syria or Yemen would have had the Arabs of the region ethnically cleansed or murdered.

Considering the evil that surrounds her, Israel is superhuman in its restraint.



I don't know - they seem like pretty decent eggs in most cases.



And Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have pledged to wipe the Jews out from the world. Just like Hitler wanted to do.

If anything, Israel has shown restraint in the face of danger that is beyond the point of sanity.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

And people wonder why sane people support Israel. Honestly, it's so much a no-brainer that it doesn't bear thinking about.

All this free advertising the Israel-haters and general anti-Semites do for Israel makes me seriously want to visit. It can't possibly meet my expectation, so if in the very unlikely chance that I don't like the country I can be safe in the knowledge that I can blame the Jews* for not having a good holiday, as blaming Jews for everything does seem de rigeur in the countries surrounding her.

* Yes, it's a joke.

Israel is supported for the following reasons; They're white like us, they look like us and their opponents look alien. Those are I think they first set of reasons.

The slightly more fanatical people support Israel because they are seen as the Goodies of the Bible and their opponents (Egypt, Iraq) are the Baddies of the Bible and these are impressions that shape their opinions of what's going on today.

The more fanatical people worship Israel because "He who blesses them shall be blessed and he who curses them shall be cursed", and taken further they see the establishment of Israel as vindicating the Darby heresy that claims that Israel will fight the Battle of Armageddon on God's side making its prime minister God's Deputy. Anyone who opposes Israel is therefore with Satan. Some of these people hope this battle can happen sooner rather than later so they can cheat death through the Rapture. Some are trying to use genetic engineering to breed a red heifer because a Jewish superstition states that such a heifer forces them to blow up the Haram al-Sharif to build the Third Abbatoir and in this way trigger the End Times which they hope will allow them to cheat death via the Rapture.

As far as I'm concerned, these reasons make me more inclined to oppose Israel because it's hard to support this cult... this is cult stuff, this is madness. These are people who want to cause the end of the world. The creation of Israel was a God-send for doomdsay cultists.

One of the 613 commandments given to the Israel-ites was that after 3 generations from the Exodus there were to be no grudges against the Egyptians. And the Israelites were reminded (in the commandments) to got slack for the Stranger, for the Israelites were strangers in Egypt.

ruveyn

Are you serious?

I hope he is serious. It's too much good material to waste.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to ring the BBC as it looks like we've got an amazing new frontman for a comedy parodying anti-Israel sentiments.

(Don't tell 'em he really believes it though, as I think even the biased BBC might struggle with swallowing it.)

And that has cost them in blood. In many ways Israelis, as Jews are better "christians" than most Christians.

ruveyn

I commend them for their bravery. Am Yisrael Chai.

If I was the Israelis, I wouldn't be so damn, what's that word again? Charitable, that's it. And I doubt anyone else - yes, that includes you Jew-dislikers - would be much different either.

There are people who demand the quick end of the world for this will mean the Rapture, they say, that will permit them to cheat death. Their devotion to Israel will ensure that they will not be Left Behind and will be Raptured. Perhaps you haven't heard of the mega-selling Left Behind series?

That changes nothing. The popular culture includes Biblical stuff that always casts Israel as the Goodies and Egypt for example as Baddies so they can't help but be sympathetic to Israel in a dispute with Egypt. That's just how things work. It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.

The creation of Israel boosted the Darby heresy to the point that it dominates the theology of the Southern Baptists, for example. It vindicated the heresy and the forged Bible behind it, the Scofield Reference Bible, complete with footnotes helpfully telling reader what the Bible "really" says... The "He who blesses them shall be blessed and he who curses them shall be cursed" part is explicitly described as saying, support Israel or be punished by God. There are many people who actually say that the British Empire would exist today had they not got into a fight with Zionist terrorists, that God punished Britain for daring to stand in the way of Prophecy.

I'm very much in agreement with you concerning the motivation behind evangelical support of Israel. They're the same people who accuse mainline denominations like my own of Antisemitism for our supersessionism (replacement theology), when nothing of the sort is true. I have to wonder if there was no modern state of Israel, how accepting of Jews evangelicals would really be.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The decline of British empire was way before Zionist terrorists groups (historical). You are talking about tiny thorn on the face of things.

However if Britain had the appetite, they could have wiped out the small population of Zionist fighters at the time of the King David's Hotel bombing, easily through a simple ethic cleaning policy, or even a more tactical approach. Of course there would have been other consequences to that not least many countries would turn against the UK, but it was possible nevertheless.

It was a smack in in the face, giving that we were helping Jews persecuted in Europe, we showed a lot of restraint.

Israel today is half a secular state, it has some Zionists principles, but if anything, the ugly side of Zionism, with ultra-orthodox groups, are a more recent reversion. It is a concern the internal situation in Israel even for Israelis. People forget that Zionism was a minority movement at the turn of the century within the Jewish community, and was largely viewed with disdain.

We may have made may mistakes around that time. But the mistakes were in managing the whole situation. The question if Israel should have been formed at the time, is a different question today.

I firmly believe the right for a state to exist, is much more to do with self determination, the fact that it has thrived in that way for time, and is still existent. There is no god given right, there is no historical right for a diaspora to return. So Israel has a right to exist, it isn't goign anywhere, but a Palestinian state is also necessary.

Any historical conflict involved in establishing a nation is exactly that, but that is not some kind of international legal principle that can work int the modern world.

In the same vain there will have to be a solution for the Palestinians, at some point.

My personal view is the reason why this conflict is going nowhere is the over dependance on the international community, including envoys an negotiators. Opinions are like a***holes, but only the two side will be able to sort this. The solution has to be theirs. I even suggest ripping up the former treaties, as they weren't worth the paper they were written on. Envoys need to be withdrawn, they are overpaid toadies at best.

This is literally a mass neurosis, in a dysfunctional family. We are enabling and prolonging this behavior. The incentive is not there, because they use the mediators to avoid making bridges, and delay (mostly delay in fact). Yet on the other hand they cry fowl, if they don't hear want the want to hear. It only reinforces division, and is not in the national interest of the mediator's county.

The funny thing is every time, they are pipped to negotiate you always hear, "we can't do this without the US...Norway...Egypt...Turkey....Saudi Arabia..., etc" It is not only not true, herein lies the problem.

Anyone who has ever scrabbled with a sibling or some other acquaintance, is aware of 'tell x they smell', and 'tell x I'm not talking to them' bs.

When people are neurotic they often don't realize that the problem within, sometime it takes tough love. I believe we should downgrade relations with both sides, to create a clear incentive. Instead of insisting on a specific solution, simply make it clear there must be some effort get together, and some kind of momentum. Therefore it is only right that effort to stall, or throw spanners in the work should result in sanctions. But there should be no statement as to specifics of the solution, we should not get involved in this.

Now you may say, there are several deadlocks, like Gaza. That is exactly the point instead of looking for the no-goes, look for the opportunities no matter how small. Even if it mean bypassing the political honchos. I happen to know there is already grass root level interaction, and this is the seed of change. Friend of the family are involved in this.

I also think that "friend's of" groups should be off limits to MPs/senators for the time being. It seems drastic but such an embargo will be a very useful tactic. I mean this for lobby group of both sides of the conflict.

It is also prudent ensure registered voters, are not voting in another country. Just because it may be allowed there, doesn't mean it should be ok. People have to decide which country they wish to be full right citizens in. Can't have your cake an eat it.

If you ask honestly, what is in the national interest of UK, US, and many of other players referring the middle east. The real truth is a resolution. It is time we don't make the same mistake over an over.

I was born in South Africa, my father was the British consulate in Johannesburg during the political strife, I was without a birth certificate for a month of so, because the situation being so tense with the UK, and not being able to get to the capital. I won't make the predicable comparisons, because I don't want to go against what I said. What I will say though is whatever you might say about Mandela's record, one thing I think that was remarkable about him, is he realized that the other side, feared what would happen to them after. He recognized that you have to understand the other side, what they are about and what their fears are. This is not a moral high ground, but it shown remarkable compassion, it what was necessary. You really have to think what is it you can do, rather then just what you can get out if it.

It involves a lot of creativity. You have to realize that a lot of people are just born into this, and this is their whole world view. So you are not going to defy expectations with the status quo.

The situation with Ethiopian ethnic cleansing I don't know enough about it to comment.

I think with some people the reality vs the myth of the Jewish 'ethnicity' causes these issues. There is tension causes by the immigration policy, but there is also support for Jewish minorities. Yemenite, Afghani, very small remnant communities, saved.

Some say Ethiopian Jews are the lost Dan tribe, genetics says there is not such thing as Jewish ethnicity with a common origin, it is purely a cultural meme, similar to Celts, etc.

This is an internal conflict through. These internal conflicts are equality as critical as the the external ones. Like the Israeli Bedouin (not Palestinians), how to bring them into some sense of belonging, without alienating them further.

The Palestinians have always rejected peace and have called for the annihilation of Israel (and, before that, were violently against the immigration of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution into Palestine)) decades before there was a Zionist state. There were anti-Semitic attacks on Jews by Muslims in the Middle East before the State of Israel. And, if you read the Islamic texts, they are the same ones by Islamist terrorists all over the world, not just in Palestine.

Please tell me how you negotiate people who can't be negotiated with because they fanatically believe that God tells them to kill all of you? I don't get that. One side seems to be fairly happy for peace if it is genuine (see the Peace Treaty between Egypt and Jordan, and also the unilateral disbanding of settlements in Gaza), the other doesn't want peace, and a majority of Palestinians see any Palestinian state as just another manoeuvre in their war against Israel itself.

One side needs to do an awful lot of moving. They need to make an unbelievable and unimaginable attitude change. Yes, the settlements would be a problem, absolutely, at peace negotiations. But there would have to be a liberal and democratic Jewish state with an Arab minority with full and equal rights (as there is today) and as well as a liberal and democratic Arab state with a Jewish minority (as there would have to be). There can be no Judenfrei in an internationally-recognised 'Palestinian' state, just as the racist Kahanists need to be made aware that there will be no Arab-free Israel. I know that the Kahanists are a minority in Israeli politics, but this needs to be said.

Oh, and all the Islamist terrorist organisations have to radically reform or disband. The real core of this problem, and one that's nearly impossible to shake off is Muslim Arab Jew-hatred. That's Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, Fatah, and all the other murderous organisations, as well as the Saudis, Iranians, Qataris and all the other Middle Eastern states. They need to concentrate on their own people (and the Arab countries that have never integrated their Palestinians into their societies should consider it a matter of national shame), stop funding malignant organisations and stop inciting hatred of Jews. I really feel for the Palestinians themselves, as they're never going to be able to do this even if they wanted to. These organisations have an iron grip on the Palestinian people. Even if the Palestinian people wanted to be rid of them, they would find getting rid of them a nearly impossible task.

I do agree that all lobby organisations - in the West, particularly - need to step away from advocating for one side or the other in any negotiations. The supporters of Palestinian or Islamist terrorism and annihilationism badly need to grow up and have a wash and the Israel supporters need to stay out of this one too. Really, the reporting needs to be sober, even-sided and low-key ideally - it's best if there isn't inflammatory rhetoric at the time of negotiations on any side if these conditions came to pass.