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seaturtleisland
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30 Jan 2013, 9:32 am

ruckus wrote:
I'm rather fond of this article's take on the subject: http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-rea ... led-creepy

Quote:
At the heart of the "anti-creep shaming campaign" is a concerted effort to discourage women from relying on their instincts to protect themselves from harm [...] Calling a dude "creepy" labels him as a potential threat; a creep may not be imminently violent, but there's almost always a sense that he shows consistent disregard for a woman's physical or psychological space. This is why, as Wakeman wrote, "it's a really freaking dangerous idea to twist a woman's open, honest communication about her boundaries/expectations into ‘creep shaming' that victimizes men."


It doesn't necessarily victimize men but it victimizes males with AS. How often do people with AS send misleading signals?



Venger
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30 Jan 2013, 10:00 am

ruckus wrote:
I'm rather fond of this article's take on the subject: http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-rea ... led-creepy



The tard who wrote that seems to think that "creep" is a purely sexual-related term that applies only to men. But it can apply to many things such as people of both genders that are liars and/or thieves for example.



Jacoby
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30 Jan 2013, 10:16 am

I don't really understand "creep shaming" or "slut shaming" or whatever, I've always been the type to call it like I see it. There plenty of women out there that can be described as "creepy" and as a guy I find a lot of guys to be "creepy" as well. Hopefully I'm just not considered one of them.

You should avoid judging a person based on appearance and other superficial reasons whenever possible but prejudice isn't completely without purpose. It's based in self preservation, if a woman legitimately feels a "creep" may be a threat to her well-being then she probably shouldn't risk it. That's a pretty big leap just from interpreting looks and atypical mannerisms however.



seaturtleisland
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30 Jan 2013, 10:40 am

Venger wrote:
ruckus wrote:
I'm rather fond of this article's take on the subject: http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-rea ... led-creepy



The tard who wrote that seems to think that "creep" is a purely sexual-related term that applies only to men. But it can apply to many things such as people of both genders that are liars and/or thieves for example.


It can even be sexual with people of the same gender. I know I'm female but before I came out trans I was presenting as male and if someone behaved in a creepy manner towards me he thought he was doing it to a guy. Someone who thought I was just a timid teenage boy said sexual things to me because he was trying to make me feel uncomfortable. I tried to hide my reaction because he was only doing it because he knew it made me uncomfortable. I control my reaction because his comments were so overwhelmingly provocative.

That particular example doesn't count as creepy sexual behaviour from one person of the same gender to another because I am really female but I could definitely see this person acting the same way to someone who really was male.

He thought I was a 16 year old boy when he did it so if he found someone who really was a teenage boy and was also as timid as I was he probably would've targeted him too.



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30 Jan 2013, 11:29 am

I call it being "Creepzoned" - sorta like being "Friendzoned" but on a lower social level.



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30 Jan 2013, 11:54 am

Quote:
Good questions. I believe it occurs in situations where men behave in ways that are unacceptable to females. They use the word "creepy" (or some other magic smear word), usually in front of an audience of peers. I've had this happen to me a few times and I didn't understand what they were doing, or why I should care. I only understand it abstractly. If the target doesn't care about social approval it will have no effect on him.


This doesn't make sense to me. People are entitled to hold and express whatever opinions they like. If they were renting billboards or creating websites to "shame" people, that might be another story.
Are you suggesting people don't have the right to say "creep"? That it is a form of hate speech? If so, then how about "b*tch" and "pr*ck" and "fat ugly moron"? Where do we draw the line?



Tequila
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30 Jan 2013, 12:03 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
This doesn't make sense to me. People are entitled to hold and express whatever opinions they like.


Truly? You'll run into some problems with the more PC members of this forum with that - and that's just talking about women alone. If women can call men 'creeps', why can't men call women 'sluts'?



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30 Jan 2013, 1:05 pm

Tequila wrote:
Some people (extremists, usually) take offence at nearly any difference of opinion or of criticism even if that criticism is polite and moderate. You can't mollify those people without censoring one's own right to free speech.

What about people who become offended on someone else's behalf on topics that, if the person who was meant to be offended was actually there, wouldn't actually be offended at all and would actually tell the "offence taker for others" to grow the hell up?


First, bear in mind that I said quite clearly that there is no compulsion on the person causing offence. I can tell you that what you are saying is offensive, but, absent some prohibitive rules, I can't stop you from saying it. But it is now up to you to decide whether what you are saying is more important, than the offense you are causing me, or whether there is a way to say what you want to say without doing so.

As for the third parties--they are entitled to their opinions. They are entitled to take offense. And you are, generally speaking, entitled to view their taking offense as less important than what you have to say. But if these third parties are, say, co-workers, and they believe that your offensiveness is causing a hostile workplace environment, then they have every right to use the tools at their disposal if you persist in behaviour to which they object.

We are talking about the compromise that we all make to our personal interests in order to participate in a larger society. Rigid insistence on the right to engage in offensive behaviour, and rigid insistence on the right to take offense at such behaviour both are impediments to that compromise. At the end of the day, we have to find a way to get along.


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Tequila
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30 Jan 2013, 1:27 pm

visagrunt wrote:
But it is now up to you to decide whether what you are saying is more important, than the offense you are causing me, or whether there is a way to say what you want to say without doing so.


Or whether it's actually worth the bother if the person on the other end won't listen to you anyway, even if you tone it down.

[quote="visagrunt"]First, bear in mind that I said quite clearly that there is no compulsion on the person causing offence. I

There is no compulsion on other people to take offence either. I've had potentially offensive remarks aimed at me. Do I take offence and get all angry? Sometimes, no. I take them in good humour. Sometimes taking jibes in good humour is a part of the bonding process.



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30 Jan 2013, 1:39 pm

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Truly? You'll run into some problems with the more PC members of this forum with that - and that's just talking about women alone. If women can call men 'creeps', why can't men call women 'sluts'?


There's a difference between what's legally acceptable and what's socially acceptable. I'm talking about legality.
For the record, I have many times been told I am creepy, and I'm a woman. I even had a boss who told me in front of a group of co-workers that he was afraid I was going to bring a bomb to work one day. My college roommate thought I was making a voodoo doll of her. Men definitely don't hold a patent on unintentional creepiness.



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30 Jan 2013, 1:41 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
I even had a boss who told me in front of a group of co-workers that he was afraid I was going to bring a bomb to work one day.


I just had an idea for a very sick joke, but it would probably have got you fired.



visagrunt
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30 Jan 2013, 1:46 pm

Tequila wrote:
There is no compulsion on other people to take offence either. I've had potentially offensive remarks aimed at me. Do I take offence and get all angry? Sometimes, no. I take them in good humour. Sometimes taking jibes in good humour is a part of the bonding process.


But that's your decision about how to react. Another person has exactly the same right to react differently.


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30 Jan 2013, 1:48 pm

visagrunt wrote:
But that's your decision about how to react.


But I also have the right to dispute/reject their offence if I believe it's unwarranted or malicious.



mds_02
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30 Jan 2013, 1:56 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Men definitely don't hold a patent on unintentional creepiness.


No, but there's a difference in meaning when a man is called creepy, vs. when a woman is called creepy. When a woman is called creepy, the implication is that she's vaguely frightening. When a man is called creepy, the implication is generally that he's "rapey."

There's nothing, absolutely nothing, worse that can be said about a man than that.



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30 Jan 2013, 2:01 pm

mds_02 wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Men definitely don't hold a patent on unintentional creepiness.


No, but there's a difference in meaning when a man is called creepy, vs. when a woman is called creepy. When a woman is called creepy, the implication is that she's vaguely frightening. When a man is called creepy, the implication is generally that he's "rapey."

There's nothing, absolutely nothing, worse that can be said about a man than that.

do you think there is any difference when men or women are called "sluts", or is it the same for both genders?


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Tequila
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30 Jan 2013, 2:03 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
do you think there is any difference when men or women are called "sluts", or is it the same for both genders?


What is meant then is that the man and woman is of bad character, and yes, it's shaming language, but being called creepy is making allusions to possibly having sexual criminal tendencies.