Is there anything to "Men's Rights" groups?

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For some people, lack of sex is an issue as much as lack of romance is an issue for some others. I don't see why these issues need to be neglected just because they seem trivial to a select group of people lacking empathy for those who intensely desire such things.

There are many possible solutions that could be implemented to resolve such issues, but some feminists are going to have to first go beyond the paranoia of men suggesting rape to fix their frustration before they can be implemented. Because no one is suggesting rape as an answer as far as I can see.

I don't think so, necessarily. It's NOT just guys doing things like this, and besides, I highly doubt Thai society pushes Thai women to have sex with foreign men. Actually, it's novelty sex. The same thing happens over here. Male Turkish exchange students typically go home loaded with STD's after a semester in Europe or the U.S. "Study abroad" programs are majority women for a reason....

Thanks for that. You've given me something over which to mull for a bit. Previously, all I've really noticed coming from those who wear the Feminist label is statements like "Men are worms, who don't DESERVE sex! And, don't you DARE objectify us sexually!" For me, this is a new point of view that merits some consideration.

Being broke hurts my feelings.

Other people should voluntarily give me money to cheer me up.

It's necessary for my emotional health.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Being unable to get laid is not a "social problem" and it's not society's job to provide for your "happiness."

As already mentioned in two other threads, I fully accept the desicion of women, working as prostitutes and see nothing bad about it. But these job already exist. So beside the USA, where prostitution is still illegal, how can this be a solution, to an existing problem, when the so called solution already exists, but the problems is still there? You want sex? Go for it. According to this, there should be no more problems: If there still are, its not an solution. So when there are woman, that are willing to have sex, and there are men that want sex, how could there still be a problem for men that want sex. - Ah, yes. Free women want to have an advantage on their own, so they want money for their work as everyone else. And here we are again: Bad feminism, allowing women to decide that they want to have payment for their work instead to behave like nice little slaves. ^^

I personally dont think that teaching about flirting in school would be a good thing. How can you teach someone, to go for his own deeds? From my oppinion it would worsen the actual things like "Men has to do xyz and behave xyz to be right, according to teached flirting rules." and "Woman has to do xyz and behave xyz to be right, according to teached flirting rules." I think this is responsible for the problems you speak of. I myself also had these problems, until I completely gave up on that entire dating sh**. The problem, from my side is exactly that society already teaches people how they shall flirt and do relationships. And if you dont fit into this, you are wrong, and not interesting for a partner. So the rules, were easy. Just be a complete other person then the one, that I am, pretend to like things that cause me a meltdown and denie the things that I like. Oh great. And this shall be teached in school? Specialists for depressions will like the idea.

Dont you think, that maybe this already existing flirt rules ARE the problem? I have many "male-geek" hobbies. Many of the men I met around my hobbies are really good guys. You can talk and discuss normally with them, they have a job that is sufficient and ok, they wished themself to have a girlfriend. So why dont they have one, while lots of other absolute dumb idiot guys have one? Because there are already flirting rules existing, and according to them, you are not allowed to be a geeky guy, with geeky hobbies like Pen and Paper Roleplaying or Tabletop games, sufficient job, normal clean cloths that dont go after fashion ... Its these flirting rules, telling people that its better to have the dumbbrain idiot with the fashion cloths and the soccer hobby. "Because this is like a man is." *puke* They are even advertising these idiotic flirting rules in television like that idiotic "the geek and the model" show and so on. So there is a completely normal guy, and a woman that does absolutely nothing that has a worth for anyone and has left reality when she got her first barbie with 5 years: And this idiotic useless woman is telling someone with a worthy job, that is a usefull part of society, in which way he is wrong? O_o Puts him some cloth on as he was a doll, giving him some useless hairstyle and then "Oh is that gread! Now you are an adorable men according to existing flirting rules. You are now SO different! Because you dont like yourself anymore, and from now on you hide your damn geeky hobby from others, that are part of you, from others." And this sh** is accepted and a good thing, according to the already existing flirting rules.

Its that rules, that are causing the problems. You can be a fine woman, but if you dont do that nonsense stuff, you are worthless, according to these rules. And you can be a fine man as well, but if you dont fit into that nonsensestuff, you are worthless. Thats what people already get told, and thats whats causing the problems. And you want people to teach that stuff in school, so that really every girl knows that a guy with geeky hobbies is a looser, according to flirt rules, and every guy gets to know that a girl not wearing make up is not worth a partnership?

Because of this already existing rules, I shitted on the whole flirting on partnership stuff. And the thing why I had the luck of having an relationship, was because I finally met a boy that shitted on these rules as much as I.

My casual observation is that some groups are concerned with legitimate issues, such as men's reproductive rights and husband abuse...

Nothing wrong with volunteering to give money.

That's up to society itself to decide anyway. Not one particular individual's opinion about what society's job should be.

But if that's what society overall wants, then so be it. I proposed something to make it easier and more convenient for both genders, but the feminist mind seems to be in the way, both when it comes to sex and also when it comes to dating.

When people like you will cease trivializing the primal needs of others to get laid or to experience love and intimacy in a relationship (interesting how you didn't comment on that one), we'll get somewhere that will benefit both genders rather than just aim to "benefit" one subset of the human race.

Good luck with achieving your trivial goals via feminism.

... and Paternity Fraud, in which a mother names a man to be the biological father of a child, particularly for monetary self-interest, when she knows full well that he is not the biological father (Reference: Draper, Heather (2005). "Paternity fraud and compensation for misattributed paternity". Journal of Medical Ethics 33 (8): 475–480. doi:10.1136/jme.2005.013268. PMC 2598159. PMID 17664309.) There are many examples in the U.S. court system; here are a few examples:

Then you'll be sending me a check for $1,000 to ameliorate my emotional health?

Good luck convincing society to accept your particular view of what society's job should be.

I demand that society provides me with free money as having to work for it damages my emotional health.

Since not having money makes me unhappy, it is society's responsibility to provide it.

Strawman.

I'm proposing, not necessarily convincing. But glad you admit that it's not up to you to decide what society's job is.

No, not necessarily. I propose that society help provide a way for you to earn more money. Well, that's easy to do, isn't it? Go work extra hours if that's what you want. You're not being stopped from doing so.

So.....it's not your job to rectify my unhappiness? I'm confused.

Good luck getting society to accept your proposal on what society's job should be.

Working makes me unhappy.

If I'm unhappy, it's a social problem.

You lack empathy if you don't agree it's a social problem.

You bet you are. That's what happens when you don't pay enough attention to what I'm saying.

If I said that there's nothing wrong with volunteering and giving out money for free, that doesn't mean that it must logically follow that I'm implying that it's wrong not to.

Also, I'm not society. Sorry you're confused.

Thanks. Nothing's impossible. Now was there a real point to make here? Or are you just going to play ball with me all day?

Your argument is flawed. Because even if society did want every person to have money for free, it's economically and financially impossible to do so, and the current capitalist system just isn't suitable for such a solution. Hell, even communism and socialism couldn't make this work.

Besides, you already have money (regardless of whether you want more and more of it), so your analogy doesn't help whatever point you're trying to make.

Yeah, to be more clear, I actually don't think that men and women have very different drives. I think it varies more based on individual, but that women tend to need to be more careful because of social stigma and pregnancy risks. I was just looking at what it would mean IF AP's statements were true that there is some big biological difference. If it were all biological, how does it make sense that women in another country are all up for it?

Personally, I think the main difference is social stigma which is a leftover from traditional gender roles. Many women who would otherwise like to be sexually adventurous will easily pick up the negative message from guys who say things like "sluts are not wife material" and negative messages from other women in her peer circle who would sneer at her for sleeping around with "losers." Who hasn't heard the theory all the time that a woman who is sexually adventurous must have low self esteem? There is a whole competitive status thing wrapped around it, pressure from all sides for women to be pickier.

AP wrote:

Well, the USA does have a very puritanical streak, which we will probably never overcome. Are American Feminists more Puritanical than Feminists in other countries?

Being unable to get laid is not a "social problem" and it's not society's job to provide for your "happiness."

I know that. You were simply avoiding my original question.

I take it you won't be sending out that $1,000 check any time soon?

"Society" is comprised of individuals. If you want "society" to work together to fix your inability to get laid, you had best start considering how to convince "individuals" to care about your plight.

My point is that you're no more qualified to determine what what society's "job" should be in relation to your personal unhappiness than I am.

Seeing as you're the one who wants people to care about your lack of sex, the onus falls on you to convince the rest of us to participate in your schemes.

There are currently many avenues available for men who want sex.

The current method of obtaining money doesn't suit me as I find it too difficult and it makes me unhappy. Therefore, society should make it easier than what it currently is for me to get money. If you disagree, you lack empathy.

There is also a social stigma against men who aren't all about sex too. And definitely social pressure to have lots of meaningless hookups, along with social pressure on women to avoid these things. So I think the social pressures go in both directions.

Agreed, though it may be related to a social problem. The role of porn addiction in creating creepy male behavior and obsessions with sex is not studied nearly enough....