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Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say

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thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 3:35 pm

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Kraichgauer
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05 Mar 2013, 5:12 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As the Pro-Life crowd tend to be politically so conservative that they think the government has no right to use their money for WICK and medical programs, perhaps the argument can be turned around with the assertion that letting babies die from malnutrition or lack of medical care is as much murder as they claim abortion is.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

There is also an argument to be made that life is not necessarily desirable. It is often assumed that life = good; but I don't think this is so. Before the government acts to discourage abortion, it should consider if the environment is one that the woman wants to bring her child into.


The thing is, people will continually bring children into the world, regardless of the conditions in which they live. The answer to that is for government and/or good Samaritans to alleviate the already existing bad conditions.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Ann2011
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05 Mar 2013, 6:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The thing is, people will continually bring children into the world, regardless of the conditions in which they live.

I don't get why people keep doing this. It's like banging your head against a wall - it doesn't get any better.

Everyone is supposed to be so unique and important, but we're just like snowflakes. Each one is different, but you still end up with a pile of snow. And it gets dirty and it blocks the path and it's heavy. There is only so much that can be done by samaritans and governance. I think our numbers are crushing us.



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05 Mar 2013, 7:03 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The thing is, people will continually bring children into the world, regardless of the conditions in which they live.

I don't get why people keep doing this. It's like banging your head against a wall - it doesn't get any better.

Everyone is supposed to be so unique and important, but we're just like snowflakes. Each one is different, but you still end up with a pile of snow. And it gets dirty and it blocks the path and it's heavy. There is only so much that can be done by samaritans and governance. I think our numbers are crushing us.


Yes, but we will always have a biological instinct to have sex - and thus reproduce - regardless of the surrounding conditions.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Ann2011
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05 Mar 2013, 7:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The thing is, people will continually bring children into the world, regardless of the conditions in which they live.

I don't get why people keep doing this. It's like banging your head against a wall - it doesn't get any better.

Everyone is supposed to be so unique and important, but we're just like snowflakes. Each one is different, but you still end up with a pile of snow. And it gets dirty and it blocks the path and it's heavy. There is only so much that can be done by samaritans and governance. I think our numbers are crushing us.


Yes, but we will always have a biological instinct to have sex - and thus reproduce - regardless of the surrounding conditions.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I get the instinct to have sex, but reproduction does not necessarily follow. I guess there's some sort of feeling of being able to exist over a greater amount of time, but I just don't get it. I've avoided getting pregnant because I wouldn't wish a lifetime on Earth on my worst enemy. I've never been in the position to have an abortion, and I'm not sure if I would or not. God vs common sense - life is a burden, there is no greatness, only glimpses of it. But still, it seems a shame to snuff a new life out.



thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 7:22 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
I get the instinct to have sex, but reproduction does not necessarily follow. I guess there's some sort of feeling of being able to exist over a greater amount of time, but I just don't get it. I've avoided getting pregnant because I wouldn't wish a lifetime on Earth on my worst enemy. I've never been in the position to have an abortion, and I'm not sure if I would or not. God vs common sense - life is a burden, there is no greatness, only glimpses of it. But still, it seems a shame to snuff a new life out.


At what point does a new life become a new life though? Is it when the sperm and egg meet?

If so, then a fertilised egg constitutes a new life and since the vast majority of fertilised eggs never make it to the womb lining that makes any sexually active woman who's ever flushed a sanitary towel a potential murderer.


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Ann2011
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05 Mar 2013, 7:30 pm

thomas81 wrote:
If so, then a fertilised egg constitutes a new life and since the vast majority of fertilised eggs never make it to the womb lining that makes any sexually active woman who's ever flushed a sanitary towel a potential murderer.

I often feel a sense of loss when I have my period. Every time, I think that this had the potential to be a person. Still though, I'm glad that I didn't have any.



thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 7:40 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
If so, then a fertilised egg constitutes a new life and since the vast majority of fertilised eggs never make it to the womb lining that makes any sexually active woman who's ever flushed a sanitary towel a potential murderer.

I often feel a sense of loss when I have my period. Every time, I think that this had the potential to be a person. Still though, I'm glad that I didn't have any.


If i had the same sense of loss everytime I ejaculated, it would be multiplied by 300 million.


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Ann2011
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05 Mar 2013, 7:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
If so, then a fertilised egg constitutes a new life and since the vast majority of fertilised eggs never make it to the womb lining that makes any sexually active woman who's ever flushed a sanitary towel a potential murderer.

I often feel a sense of loss when I have my period. Every time, I think that this had the potential to be a person. Still though, I'm glad that I didn't have any.


If i had the same sense of loss everytime I ejaculated, it would be multiplied by 300 million.


Yeah, I wonder what that person would have been. Not enough space in the world for all of them though.



thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 8:01 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
If so, then a fertilised egg constitutes a new life and since the vast majority of fertilised eggs never make it to the womb lining that makes any sexually active woman who's ever flushed a sanitary towel a potential murderer.

I often feel a sense of loss when I have my period. Every time, I think that this had the potential to be a person. Still though, I'm glad that I didn't have any.


If i had the same sense of loss everytime I ejaculated, it would be multiplied by 300 million.


Yeah, I wonder what that person would have been. Not enough space in the world for all of them though.


my point is its not worth mourning. The feeling would drive me mad.


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ruveyn
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05 Mar 2013, 8:03 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Yeah, I wonder what that person would have been. Not enough space in the world for all of them though.


At this juncture no one knows the carrying capacity of the planet.

ruveyn



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05 Mar 2013, 10:22 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The thing is, people will continually bring children into the world, regardless of the conditions in which they live.

I don't get why people keep doing this. It's like banging your head against a wall - it doesn't get any better.

Certain religions have a habit of having seven kids per household as a means of totalitarian theocrat takeover via outpopulating those who are having replacement rate or less. In other places the economics and life expectancy haven't changed all that much yet.



androbot2084
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05 Mar 2013, 10:57 pm

Artificial wombs will make abortion obsolete.



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Mar 2013, 11:01 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Artificial wombs will make abortion obsolete.

Perhaps if that comes with the sound of mass tubes being tied for the non-artificial wombs.



androbot2084
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05 Mar 2013, 11:02 pm

Natural wombs will be like an appendix.



techstepgenr8tion
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05 Mar 2013, 11:48 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Natural wombs will be like an appendix.

Yes, something perhaps with even worse potential consequences than an appendix.....responsibility.