Cuba: Maybe We Should Give Them a Chance

Post Reply New Topic

Since a true Laizzes-Faire economy never eixted, a lot of somewhat capitalistic third world countries (Uruguay, Botswana, Jordan and so on) do indeed offer free health care. Some of the emergin Arab states offer health care that's far superior to that of Cuba.

Cuba had free healthcare since the early 1930's, implemented roughly the same time as eight hour workdays and three weeks of paid vacation.

Health care for the poor (great or not great, at least there's some), literacy rate, diversification of agriculture...



I was talking about Latin America. As a whole. When the US and the USSR were playing their games, the continent was a hell hole. It's not been dragged into the first world overnight, but there's been a considerable improvement in living conditions continent wide, socialist or capitalist.



Two countries in Africa, there. Mali, Nigeria, Sudan, South Sudan, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya (Outside of the Cities), Libya, Lesotho, Malawi, Sierra Leone, Liberia, DRC, Eritrea, Angola, Ivory Coast... and so on. Many have remained the same or gotten worse.

Qatar's doing great, I'm sure. Not so hot for Tajikistan,, with 47% living in poverty, or Yemen, 45%. Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan. The UAE and Saudi Arabia do great. For the wealthy. That wealth, like in India, is offset by grinding poverty.

I agree that having more money is good for people. It's great. But because one place is doing alright doesn't mean the majority are. In China, for example, the nation is richer, on average, but everywhere outside of the cities remains dirt poor. In Africa and the Middle East, massive profits for some never, ever trickled down to the people below. So we see people living in virtual serfdom.



$6 a week salary, 20% chronic unemployment, and only a third with running water. I do not think your idea of a middle class is my idea of a middle class, because a middle class has plumbing.

Today, the average wage for a Cuban is $19-20.



Most

I think Kim Il Sung wasn't really "evil" but Kim Jong Il was horrible. Also, Kim Jong Un is trying to implement economic reforms similar to how China did, ie, make it more capitalist.

Cuba still had health care for the poor in the 1950's, and given that the life expectancy increased by 11 years during Batista, the welfare system would probably be better today without Castro.



More so in the capitalist countries.



Most of the countries you've mentioned are socialist countries--and they're typically led by a wealthy tyrant.



Most of these Arab states are hardly "emerging".



Given that Mao was responsible for the largest famine in the history of mankind, they're still better off with the current reforms.



Again, this is the case in socialist states. And it's possible mainly because the government controls the market there.



Industrial workers made more than this; you're refering to the salary of a farmer. This translates to roughly 200 dollars a month in 2012 values. To be honest significantly less than 1/3 of all households in most of Latin America had running water.



... A month, that is.



Actually, if Fidel Castro gave his 900 million dollar fortune to the Cuban people, they'd be much better of than they are today.

I heard criticism of the government in Cuba... so this idea that it's this horrible despotism isn't quite right. Cuba does create and sell cures and vaccines for terrible diseases, which as far as this "global economy" is concerned is quite significant.

Here we go with the $20 a month in Cuba... Cuba has a dual currency system, or actually a three currency system. There are Cuban pesos, there is the ration booklet, there are the convertible pesos. The Cuban pesos buy everything local more or less. The ration booklet takes care of the essentials. The convertible pesos are pegged to hard currency reserves and are based on what Cuba's exporting and the money it gets from that and also from tourism. These pay mainly for imports considered to be luxuries. Cubans are paid I believe 24 convertible pesos per month and one convertible peso is equal to one euro. There are shops that only take convertible pesos, and often people who sell things take advantage of tourists' confusion by accepting convertible pesos when their price is in Cuban pesos.

One reason why the tourism sector is attractive is that such people can get tips in convertible pesos from the tourists and significantly supplement their take in convertible pesos. Tourists must pay 20 convertible pesos to leave the country and they use mostly convertible pesos.

About 1400 Paramilitaries, if memory serves me correctly.

Since then, nada.

Nobody said that everything Cuba did was wrong, just like Mussolini, Batista, Pinochet and several other dictators did a few things right, the communist dictatorships did a few things right as well. Mussolini in particular is a good example as the fascist managed to eliminate illiteracy in Italy, increased both the welfare spendings and the pensions and made an 8 hour workday mandatory. It still doesn't change the fact that Mussolini supported Hitler.

Selling vaccines won't wake up 70 000 people who've lost their lives on Cuba (and a couple of thousands who've lost their lives after the Cuban invasion of Angola) because of Castro, though.



These are facts everyone already know. There are two reasons why this has been implemented:

1. It prevents guerilla soldiers from mobilizing.

2. It makes it extremely difficult to leave Cuba.

This system is the main reason why a prostitute makes four times as much in a night as a doctor does in one month.



This is how it works in theory, but not in practice. A CUC is 25 times more valuable than a CUP and can be used pretty much everywhere. One CUP holds no direct value outside of Cuba, though. You're also missing the fact that what retails as CUC only, typically is just as expensive in Cuba as it is everywhere else. As an example, talking in a cell phone for an hour i 20 CUC, a pair of shoes i 90 CUC and a bottle of imported beer is 1.5 CUC.

A medical doctor earns a salary worth roughly 22 dollars a month in Cuba meassured in CUC only; a tradesman earns between 16 and 18 if he's payed by the government. Theoretically, you could increase this amount by 60-70% if you add inn CUP as well.



Shops aimed at tourists only take convertible pesos, yes. In these shops, a hi-fi stereo or a computer is just as expensive as in the US, though.

The United States should have quashed Castro's revolution before, during, or right after it took place.
We should have never allowed a communist country to exists that close to US soil.

There. Fixed it for you!

j/k

Glad to see the non-interventionist ideals of the Founding Fathers live on. America's respect for the sovereignty of other peoples is on show each and every day. Thanks for the reminder, lest we ever forget.

Seriously, right or wrong, why not merely let them be?

As Kurgan said, without the embargo Castro wouldn't be in power anymore. But yes, I do support non-interventionism.

America was founded on the Biblical ideals of slavery, the subjugation of women, and conquest by genocide - respect for the sovereignty of other peoples is superficial, at best.

I say, once the Castro regime is finally dead and buried, America should impose its will upon all sovereign nations in the Caribbean, and provide cheap labor for outsourced jobs a little closer to home.

That principle was used to kill over 100,000 people in Guatemala. The Bay of Pigs invasion was modelled after the 1954 intervention there that overturned democracy and brought in that long tyranny... Rios Montt was just convicted of genocide for his role in the anti-Communist war period, something that never would have happened had the US left them alone. Che Guevara was in Guatemala in 1954 and advised Castro to turn to Communism and Soviet support to protect Cuba from the fate of Guatemala and he has been vindicated.

Never forget the words of Jersey City mayor Frank Hague to the local Chamber of Commerce in 1938; "We hear about constitutional rights, free speech and the free press. Every time I hear those words I say to myself, 'That man is a Red, that man is a Communist.' You never heard a real American talk in that manner."

During the cold war I would have made it a point to make a point with the USSR that they won't have any allied nations in the western hemisphere.

Or we could have just supplied arms to the "freedom fighters" of Afghanistan and dragged them out in a prolonged war.

The Founding Fathers could not have foreseen WW2, the Cold War and nuclear weapons. Or planes flying into buildings. Ang going from the 13 Colonies to the enormous country it is now also wouldn't have happened with non-interventionism. The genocide in Yugoslavia would have been much worse without NATO intervention. I think there are good and bad interventions.