Do buddhists know the real purpose of life?

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By your logic, humans shouldn't overcome anything so we should probably just go out and kill each other for "leadership." Just because humanity is capable of such and such doesnt mean we should just follow it (i.e. we are capable of greed, doesn't mean we NEED to).

To go into a bit of fiction that CAN be reality, lets visit Star Trek. The story behind the Vulcans was that they CHOSE to live the way they did, consciously. The reason being was that they decided to take it from where they left nature. My point? Well, its about time humans picked themselves up and did something positive, for a change, as a whole. That means the lies need to stop, the truth needs to be told, etc.

As well, Meditation allows a human (maybe even an animal, who knows?) to dive into their subconscious when "reality" or "normal states of mind" do not allow you access.



No, not at all. If you change, its because you realize the truth and were not on the correct path - 3rd time now, "adaptation" is the hardest part to learning because you have to question yourself and potentially see yourself for who you REALLY are and change. This is hard to do in a "normal" state as what YOU see is not what might be happening, its just what you WANT to see.



Congratulations goes out to those other religions. You do not understand the illusions because you cannot see past 'greed' and 'ego,' so, they are not illusions to you. They are just parts of humanity and we are weak and stupid and must succomb to them. See the above paragraph



What are you doing in the outside world? How are you gathering information? What are you "specifically" doing? Are you on a rocket ship? Oh, ya, you keep mentioning "studies" and crap then you tell me I'm depriving myself but then all YOU have is hearsay. What one is it?

Again, speak for yourself. Push away thousands upon thousands of years of information just because SCIENCE, which has been around the shortest amount of time but looks the prettiest, cannot prove something.

BTW, seeing is NOT believing. I can see a picture of a dead Saddam but who is to say that is:
a) Saddam
b) That he really is dead if it is.



Read the above. Changing yourself as a result of truth. Adaptation is the hardest part to learning.



Yup, just like how a pyschologist knows you better then yourself (which is true for many, not for myself and others). You know why they "know" more? Because people are so caught up in their own illusions they need someone else to tell them how it REALLY is - unbiasedly. Those who are truely in touch with themselves do not need this as they are highly self aware (btw, self awareness is more then knowing its "you" looking back from the mirror).

Well, you can read other peoples stories and adopt the ones you think are right or go out and create your own path. Really, when it comes down to it, I'm more in touch with reality then you are. While I "meditate" you are simply sitting there reading internet articles.



Its origin does not.



I havent come to a final conclusion on anything. I'm merely debating the truths of "self" which have stood tall for thousands of years. As well, more data popping up doesnt indicate change, necessarily, just means you found more stuff.

BTW, if they found the age of the universe, what are the comparing it to and how do they know thats even correct?



Mockery is a form of flattery - thank you



So the origins of the universe are changing? This is in response to that fact that nothing has changed in meditation for thousands of years.



Aww, but they ARE doing things in this world. Reflection is part of meditation. Think of it as a personal "Psychologist." If not, they'd be in that state all day. Hell, even ALL animals only eat, drink, and sleep. It's nature to 'not waste energy.' So, its nature to "relax" but what specie would have the time without fear of being killed? Who knows... Although that could be natures way of saying "yo, slow some s**t down."

Next time you feel anxious, make note of your breathe. It'll be going fast. When you laugh, take note of your breathing. It'll be going slow. Meditation, your breathing is slow. Laughing "adds on years to your life" (whether thats true, we won't know) but laughter is a huge benefit to the human body as breathing rapidly is bad. Now, you can research all you want and have studies prove it or not, but happiness isn't something people consider bad. We don't need a scientific study to prove that, it just is. Sometimes, things "just are." This universe might "just be."



I never said you did say they were napping.



If you do not answer when somebody says "Who knows what happened?" then thats "lying" but, wait, its blocking information as well. Stop arguing everything, just for once! Christ, lets get REALLY picky and break down ways to "block" information and label those as well. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.



Again, stop talking - you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, I'm changing myself because of meditation and there are 0 reasons, I'm just deciding to change myself to whatever there is, doesn't matter what, I'm just changing. Yup. Ahhh. Truth? McTruth? Anyone home McTruth? (this was sarcasm)



Yup, the stuff you sweep under the rug and ignore. You ignore many things.. Just because people have money doesnt mean the stories over.



Why bother? I could post 1+1=2 and you'd quote it and argue against it.



Logic is simply a decision making tool that leads to truth. Its not exactly truth on its own as it can be used during a lie (which is not truth).

What is reality?

lol, your third point contradicts you and your stance so much, its ironic you put it there.

Then you have no truths? You're after truths but when you hear them you argue them. You're a pessimist. You're on the negative side most of your time, why would you ever see the truth? Your eyes could be wide open and it would fly above your head. And if you DID have a real truth, you wouldn't except it so why even look for the truth? You're not interested in it at all - go out and be greedy and rub it in to people's faces, thats more home for you, not truth.



(I'm crying now) WHAT DO YOU WANT? You want truth then you defend liars. God damn it, son, you're just f*****g with me now like the kid from "Badder Santa."

You ever been drunk or stoned or whatever?

If you read studies on people who smoke pot or drink, does that mean you know how it feels? You may READ about the experience, but that doesn't mean you know it. In fact, if you were to smoke weed your first time, you'd spend most your time laughing and giggling. Reading about laughing isnt the same as laughing.

Experience says a lot.

People think that "stoners" cannot function well, yet, there are many who say they can (and do) but science lumps them altogether as useless societal members.

Science continues to fail here. The reason I ask is because you knock experience where experience is the only thing that can tell you how it feels.

EDIT: I also want to add that I was exactly like you. Well, without the greed arguments and junk. I used to be a skeptic. Some may state I "found" god but I still question whether he exists (I'm back to "no" btw as the idea of "nothing" may be extremely powerful). I just state I found "myself." I couldn't be happier. If this is the "change" you are downplaying, do not advise anyone of that. Its a horrible mistake and I cringe when you keep downplaying the "change" element meditation and reflection and self awareness can bring. Much like a machine or a process can improve, humans can as well.

By my logic humans should do as they think they should instead of going by another's preferences.
Yeah.... sure. I really don't think that people should have to nor do I think that this should be pushed on them.
Good for them. I really will have to just accept your statement on that as I still could not bring myself to meditate.

No, not at all. Certain meditations are meant to stress certain things which means that the change is dependent upon the action rather than its correspondence to truth. I see myself and I see many of the aspects of myself, and really there is no reason to claim that you aren't just seeing what you want to see either given that you are simply the preacher of an orthodoxy.

I do not understand the illusions because I view the idea of illusions as illusory. I do not see past the individual and his choices and think that the whole higher truth things that you spew out are horses**t. Really, I don't see them as necessarily being overcome because that implies a reason to overcome them, given that individuals benefit from them at times the most value-free way of seeing these things in my opinion is to see them as human desires.

Uh, lets see, right now I am reading on various topics specifically statistics. Nobody is on a rocket ship. It really isn't hearsay given the fact that my claims on this subject are not ones that are untrue. I stated that it is impossible for you to accurately get information from the outside through these methods, as well, I stated that internal information received cannot be trusted because the methodology has no reason to be logically valid, you do not experiment on yourself and one cannot be an objective researcher on themselves.
Science is also a creation of years of work and was designed to be the most effective way of getting information. I throw away the previous years because those years were dominated by witchdoctors and superstitions and did not focus on getting good empirical evidence and building solid logic. They may be a good place to start looking but their conclusions cannot be accepted offhand.
The only thing is that his death is confirmed by various other sources and because the simplest answer in most cases is likely to be true it would appear that Saddam is dead. A picture of a dead saddam though, as you say does not mean much because Saddam had many body doubles.

Except that it isn't based upon truth but rather the nature of the meditation. There is no reason to believe that meditation necessarily guides you to truth. You go into a trance and the very nature of that trance is often directed towards certain purposes.

A psychologist knows your actions and what they mean better than you can oftentimes and see things that you don't necessarily see. I really don't think that you are without illusions though, if anything you are caught up in your own illusion which is why the things that most people agree on are the things that you disagree with. Now, that means about 2 things, either you are delusional, or the outside world is delusional and I don't think that such a large and intelligent part of the outside world is delusional. Self-awareness is a recognition of your nature, tendencies, beliefs, desires, etc.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! !! Corvus, I have never actually thought you were more in touch with reality than I am. You have never even seemed to be more in touch with reality than I am. Really, you have just seemed to be some new-age stoner who says weird, off the wall crap without respect to the generally accepted truths of reality, which is why I said that I thought that this kind of clash was up and coming. Really, I didn't want to say anything like this but you have to recognize that if you say that I am the one who is lost, then you need some outside source to enlighten you. Corvus, let me just put it this way, you are passionate on issues as opposed to dispassionate and you have your own, very strong ideological biases. That does not seem to me as being in touch with reality, ok.

Origin?? WTF?? There is nothing empirically or logically that states that we have a good grasp of its origin and as such looking at this root as the source of truth is impossible. We therefore have to look at the branches and go backward.

Data popping up doesn't mean change in the nature of it, it means that certain elements can have revealed themselves though.
They compare it to their models based upon the given aspects of the universe that they know about. Pretty much they don't have the exact age of it, but they have rough estimates based off of observations on how things do work and how they could work.

No, Corvus, the quote is usually "imitation". As well, mockery is actually an insult. Don't be so f*****g stupid on this, I really do find it annoying.

I never mentioned the origins and we don't know the origins. Um... nothing has changed in the human brain structure significantly for thousands of years.

No, they are not doing things IN the world. They aren't out and doing anything. Sleep is also part of nature but sleepers really aren't out and being active. Please stop misinterpreting my comments or something. It is a part of nature though to change and improve, other species relax when they don't think that their actions could be better placed.
No, breathing rapidly isn't bad. Otherwise exercise would be bad. It isn't bad. Therefore the breathing doesn't appear to be the right variable. The only thing that just is, ends up being logic, everything else must have a foundation in something.

Then why the heck mention it!

v. tr. cen-sored, cen-sor-ing, cen-sors. To examine and expurgate.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

To lie isn't to examine another piece of work and remove a part of it you don't like. Therefore it isn't censorship. You are using the incorrect definition. I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I just don't like your inaccuracy.

Don't worry, I am only typing so you don't have to worry about my talking. Yep, BS on your part.

A lot of it is though, you have to recognize that great economic scarcity has been a traditional problem that people have. We don't have a lot of that. I may look at the good a lot but that is because historically our society still easily ends up being at the pinnacle of success from almost all standpoints.

Corvus, I only argue against things that are wrong. Just because that is most of your statements doesn't mean I am argumentative.

Logic is true in the context that it is an effective tool. The statement, probably poorly phrased and caught by you, is essentially establishing the utility of logic.
Reality, go outside. Reality. It is the crap around us.
Not really, it contradicts no aspect of my stance.
The only thing is that you assume your statements are true. I disagree. I would argue that there are other truer statements. I am somewhat of a pessimist, I figure that caution is the key, and truth will never be found in all of its details so nobody will ever see truth. The only thing is that questioners and doubters are necessary in any pursuit of truth.


I never said that all people want truth and to pursue truth means recognizing this!! Frankly, Corvus, I am not f*****g with you, you just don't see the intricacies of life and want some simple answer. The answers will not be simple which is why they are not likely to be found. They exist though.

I don't want to be, it messes with your mind and weakens your reasoning.
I really don't care about experiencing it. I believe this is in response to me as I mentioned it because I was implying that drugs have weakened your reasoning.
Experience says some things.
I never said that stoners couldn't function well. The implication is that stoners cannot reason well, at least not if high and those that go off of reasoning from that high state are not using good reasoning.
I am interested in data and dissection. Emotions are not what I seek.

Humans can improve, I downplay whether or not changing in certain ways can be good though. I think that skepticism is a good place to be and is one of the more defensible positions. I have questions and doubts about the changes that you promote because I see them as going counter to what would be best and most desirable.

Ahhhh, WP as usual

Yeah, pretty much. Crazy people with crazy arguments over truth and meaning and possibly a few insults thrown in as people soon cease to understand each others point of view and finally recognize that their opponent is actually completely insane.

I have spent quite a few years obsessed with Buddhist philosophy. I do not consider myself a Buddhist, although there are some who think I am. I feel that belonging to any religion is to put oneself into a philosophical box, to paint oneself into a corner, from which the truth can never be known.

The question "Do Buddhists know the real purpose of life?" seems to be an easy one to answer. Buddhists would answer that life is dukkha, (frequently translated as suffering, but better translated as discontent.) If there is any purpose to life for a Buddhist, it is to end dukkha. The Buddha emphasized he had but one purpose: the ending of dukkha. So is that the real purpose of life? I think it is a good one, but that everyone must find his own purpose.

Just my opinion.

For me, the purpose of life is to enjoy it, to gain wisdom and knowledge, and to learn from my mistakes in order to create less dukkha for me and others.

I can agree with that. I have been mostly arguing for individual choices.

I think it's kind of funny, you cry when you get insulted but then just chuck insults back. This is an example of self-awareness. You said you were 'insulted,' but then felt free to do it to me. This is how you build upon yourself! See, this is how you "change." Your morals are what YOU don't like having done to you.

Hell, you might as well just said to me that I'm 'arguing you for the sake of arguing you' but you didn't.

The thing is, I do my damnest to cover my ass. This is why I don't lie (well, I do when they are about something stupid like "hows that food" I say "good" when maybe it wasn't because I dont want to see people cry). I live a simple life because there isn't much to it. Its comfortable.

Now that you know I smoke pot (I don't know how you didn't), you can base everything I ever say or do around that because:
1) You have never done it
2) You read studies that stated it was bad for you so it must be satan (and I bet you didn't read anything)
3) It's very "easy" for you to do
4) It's "safe" and a good way to get similar cavemen, like yourself, on your side.
5) It's convenient
6) Might be fun?


But pot also got me a job across the country and is somewhat accompanying my guitar learning/playing, my first hobby in years. Considering my early life consisted of being a quiet kid who didn't talk or no one talked to who kept to himself. He played by himself, learned by himself, did everything alone. Taught myself how to ride a bicycle. Got into highschool, stop caring about everything at about half way, beginning of grade 11. Became angry, grades dropped; did enough to be "o.k." Took my first, sh***y job (which has been the best, ironically). Got confused, society was being thrown at me, picked a horrible college topic (I.T.), wasted 3 years of my life, was miserable. Probably started smoking around the end grade "13" (last year of O.A.C.'s). Nothing much changed. I did nothing before, nothing after. About 2 years ago, I started losing all my hair; like every single one of them. I lost all the hair on the top of my head in 6 months. Did I care? No. I wanted to know why I "didn't care" about such a thing (is it a big deal?). I went through a lot of stuff. I looked into psychology, I read a whole bunch of things that lead me to aspergers. Psychology is like "Seinfeld" humour to me. When someone mentions a certain behaviour, I can understand it quickly. See, meditation aloud me to acknowledge that I've been studying everyone's behaviours my whole life. I know their actions can often not match their words.

Then, took an interest in philosophy. I WAS interested in studying pot but not all its bad things and "wacky" stereotype stoner things, I was more fascinated on things such as "why it provided an increase in 'creativity.'" I read a book that taught me to learn how to "learn" (which is why I'm taking guitar). I'm keeping tabs on all the anti-brain decay stuff marijuana supposedly does, but, these are only studies and don't mean much to me.

So, I bought a car with all my money (sold the motorcycle I owned but because I kept crashing it, I was to angry to drive it and didn't pay enough attention). I drove to my new home (2600km from where I was) to a family I didn't know. Got an apartment (first one) and thats where I am now.

I meditate nightly for about an hour. The amount of pot I smoke is not a lot. 4 hits per day, basically. Normally, 2 before I meditate (you'd be surprised how well it works). The reason I was interested in studying pot was because I noticed it was increasing my internal focus. I wanted to study it to see if it could possibly be better to use for a boat load of different things; depression, anxiety, stress reduction, creativity improvement, mind development, etc. Yes, even mind development. Some drugs work by taking over your mind ("taking over" used loosely, I just call it a 'lack of control') and you act more on impulse but if you smoke pot "responsibly" (with knowledge of how to) it can potentially work for you. Of course, I would expect people to laugh but... We'll see. The worst is "I'm wrong."

I'm about " " this close to finally finding a way to talk to people via my Uncle. He knows exactly what to say. I know that I'm very good at mimicking people (because I can normally learn "specific people" after while) so he should be no different. Basically, what I'm saying is that I'm far from crazy. In fact, I'm about as close to living in the "now" that someone can get. I consider myself like, an "Urban Monk." If this were 2000 years ago, you may find my ass at Stone Henge!

Oh, btw, the point of this story was that I was angry and depressed and just pissed off from about grade 11 to, well, sometime late last year (when I started meditating). When *I* read Buddhism, I just agree with a bunch of it (still needs an update). Again, it's not something that I TRY to be, its something that just "is." Everyday, you dress up and go out to act in society. Many people here are cluess, but they always worry they need to impress people. They are concerned trying to impress others by 'being them' but they are never 'themselves.'

You are kind of right, I am crazy. I often wondered what crazy people were thinking.

I just know that I see a bunch of societies/people lying, being as*holes, hypocritical, greedy, etc. (and I'm crazy ¿? ). Further more, I do not believe in war unless as a last defense and believe it should never come to that (again, crazy, I know, not wanting to kill others).

Since when have I cried? I have reacted and I have noted that the insults are wrong, but I have no qualms about fighting fire with fire.
Because it isn't necessarily true. Although, the comment does bring up the idea of another option I could and probably should take.
I cover my ass as well. I usually don't lie either, unless it would be particularly funny or unless it is a white lie.
I knew that you smoked pot since before this debate. You do it as part of your meditation and you talked about how you were unfree because pot was a higher price. I brought it up though, largely for reasons 3 and 5 though. It is an easy way to trash on you and is convenient as well, really it is just a part of how this debate is heating up as you accuse me of being messed up on some level, so I chuck a comment on you being a druggie as the stereotyped problems mentioned about them are things that can easily be used to describe you.

I didn't care about your life story.
Ok, good for you. I really don't care about what you believe.
Ok.

Yep, because you cannot see how this works.

*tosses in a hat*

Actually, psychology is just as much a part of science. Buddhists seek to remove some of the effects of falsity that the persona and other parts of the psyche that hide away truth and other information.



-Reality is bendable. Or rather, is full of holes. EPR paradox?
-Logic is logic. Logic is not truth, only what may fit best.
-Knowledge is not defined by truth, not in the least.

Science is not the disproof of belief. Truth about science is that science merely uncovers HOW and WHY something works, and ties it to our current collective reality. It gives a bond to chain it to the tangible world. There are still things that seem to be solid evidence and proof of something common(planetary orbit-- obviously, we're not moving that gracefully, and leap year is due to the inaccuracies in our calendar system), but still aren't.

Psychology is a science, religion isn't. Buddhists also have a goal for their minds. As such it can be stated that they don't necessarily seek truth so much as what they believe the world should be like.

Quantum mechanics though responds to its own rules and still it does not refute the idea that reality is real. The EPR paradox is just a sign that Quantum mechanics has different rule than classical physics. Logic is the only consistent path to truth as it can be verified by outside sources and other things. Any other path leads to conflicts and inconsistencies. Knowledge is defined by truth though, if something you think you know is untrue then it ends up that we don't know it.

Science is the disproof of ideas held about reality and in conflicts between it and belief, science must necessarily take the cake. The issue here ends up being a conflict between ideas about how reality works and as such science and logic should be the winning forces. Our calendar was designed to be good for our purposes, not to be perfectly accurate. A perfectly accurate calendar would be odder than throwing in an extra day every 4 years.

Awesome, you're a walking contradiction. You want the truth but at the same time, anything presented as "truth" you toss away so, in reality, you'll never find the truth you are apparently looking for.

I never expect to. I believe I said this earlier: the true nature of reality is too complex for any one person to find or solve. If it were something simple that I could individually find the answer for then somebody would likely have already won and established an absolute truth. That never happened, nobody has been able to find anything consistent and inarguable enough for this to do so. If I didn't toss away any truth thrown at me, based upon its lack of evidence then I would go more against the principles of finding truth than if I were to be a skeptic on many issues.

BTW, I think a large source for our disagreements comes from our philosophical profiles. Remember how you were NSO and I was RAR, complete opposites? Well, this is going to transfer over to these matters as well as I think we have been seeing my R clash with your N a little and my other R clashing with your O a lot.

What's this NSO and RAR business.