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xenon13
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07 Jun 2013, 3:22 pm

The neoliberal dystopia they're creating aims to make sure that everyone is at war with everyone else... promoting paranoia to the maximum.



zer0netgain
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07 Jun 2013, 3:26 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
Conspiracy theories are like paranoia. Just because you think everyone is against ya doesn't mean they aint! 8)


Indeed.

Proving a negative is an impossibility. If you had complete proof of your theory, it'd be a fact, but the most you can do is find hard evidence that calls the official story into question.

Other barriers are...

1. People granting credibility to parties because they hold the PERCEPTION of credibility, but they don't examine the credibility of their facts as they stand on their own merits.

2. People preferring one party because their theory is less repugnant/more attractive than the theory proposed by other parties (e.g., easier to believe a shooting victim brandished a weapon because it's too troubling to think the cops would gun a person down in cold blood...even though the hard facts uphold the later view as being more probable).

3. Nonsense such as Occam's Razor and Hanlon's razor. While valid points in debate and logic, it is likewise excessively easy for a person with malicious intent to arrange a scheme so that other plausible (and more probable) causes can be blamed for why something happened. This holds true for the ineffectiveness of defamation law in rendering justice. In American Jurisprudence, for a defamation case, you must prove:

a. a publication to one other than the person defamed;
b. a false statement of fact; that is understood as (i) being of and concerning the plaintiff; and (ii) tending to harm the reputation of plaintiff.
c. If the plaintiff is a public figure, he or she must also prove actual malice.

The defenses to defamation include:

a. Truth of the statement
b. There was no harm
c. There was no communication to other people
d. The injured party consented to the statement being communicated to others
e. Privilege (usually need proof of malice to overcome this defense)
f. Opinion

Now, how hard is it for someone with intent to harm you and remain unscathed? It's really quite easy.

Likewise, it's very easy to plan something and set the fact pattern most everyone sees to make other, more palatable, causes easier to accept. Criminals try and do this all the time. It's why a good detective doesn't just go with the obvious answer rather than digging for more facts. If the additional facts uphold the obvious answer, fine. However, many times digging deeper reveals conflicts and inconsistencies that make the obvious answer the wrong answer. After all, do not criminals try to cover their tracks?



wittgenstein
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07 Jun 2013, 3:44 pm

It's like when I say O.J. Simpson was framed. People say,"so you are a liberal (ad hominum) that thinks OJ was innocent?" I answer," I never said OJ was innocent. You can frame a guilty man"! Ironically, if the LA cops had not tried to frame OJ he would have been convicted. Unfortunately (for justice) because they planted evidence all their legitimate evidence became suspect.


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wittgenstein
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07 Jun 2013, 4:53 pm

Exon13,
I do not think it is paranoia to think that international corporations do not consider us in their calculations.


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Tequila
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07 Jun 2013, 4:59 pm

xenon13 wrote:
The neoliberal dystopia they're creating aims to make sure that everyone is at war with everyone else... promoting paranoia to the maximum.


I'm very upset.

I'm very upset that you didn't blame Zionists.

I'm very upset by that.



The_Walrus
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07 Jun 2013, 5:54 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

And the other side ignores the simple fact that it only takes a handful of people IN THE RIGHT POSITIONS to pull off something of that magnitude. Even then, you only need to "eliminate" your helpers if you want to narrow the pool of who knows what you did. Pawns are expendable, after all.

People would notice these "eliminations".
Quote:
You want to insist that there is nothing the the fact that remains of WTC tested positive for explosives?

Source?
Quote:
You want to insist that WTC 7 (which was demolished) was arranged in a controlled implosion in a matter of hours when demolition experts say it takes weeks of planning to know how to lay out explosives to properly implode a structure?

WTC 7 wasn't demolished.

Quote:
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong. Show me proof of that the government's story holds up when confronted with irrefutable evidence to the contrary. Want to just parrot "experts" who don't do that and make insults, who being the delusional person now?

The burden of proof is on you. Show what is wrong with the "government's story".



InvisibleMan191
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07 Jun 2013, 11:17 pm

Thing about this is, it's not hard to prove conspiracies, they don't even hardly hide it because they know they have everyone brainwashed into believing 'it can't happen to me." So they put this crap in mainstream news now. Heck, the elites have wrote countless books openly bragging about their agendas. It's merely a matter of paying attention, keeping an open mind, and connecting the dots. We're not some cosmic exception to the laws of history.



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07 Jun 2013, 11:20 pm

Hell look at this:

'm fixing to show you undeniable proof this global conspiracy actually exists, each of these videos are no longer than maybe 3-7 minutes a piece:

Bush Sr.'s famous NWO speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA

Bill Clinton's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1etgsNU46s4

Barrack Obama's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4cA-o-kKPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SctOyyteias

Tony Blair's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oIXtA-N7s

Henry Kissinger's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bKwH3kJew4


NOW, watch this, the Milgram Expirement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdb20gcc_Ns

Like I said, theyr publicly talking about it right to your faces. If an open confession is not enough proof, please don't ever get involved in detective work or jury work or anything, you'll send an innocent person to die for merely tossing out all the evidence you don't like.



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08 Jun 2013, 12:26 am

One thing I never understood, and this is just from observation, is most people who follow the mainstream media, theyr afraid to leave their house or meet someone offline, maybe theyr afraid of a brown person because the media taught us to think them all as terrorists, people on edge about crazy even stupid mess..... And *they'd* call *me* paranoid, I can prove what I know. And I'm not even scared, how can a person be paranoid if they aren't afraid? I've known about this stuff for the past 17 yrs. I'm waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy past fear, I can hardly even remember what it felt like. Remember, I took the red pill. I'm not going through life with any blinders on. Cold hard reality is, evil people do exist, and many of them run powerful businesses or positions in government or military or somewhere they can gain a position of authority, is this not why many cops go crooked? Theyr cruising for a power trip, looking to go bully someone. And they are mere enforcers, low level grunts.

But no proof will penetrate dogmatically determined denial of what's right in front of one's own face. Most people won't get it until it's too late. Many even then still won't get it. That is due to behavioral conditioning, propaganda, you know brainwashing is everywhere in western culture, billboards, magazines, tv, internet, newspapers, it has been said there is enough propaganda in American society to make Joseph Stalin blush.



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08 Jun 2013, 5:33 am

Fnord wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Actually, 9/11 conspiracy theories are based on speculations and a lot of selectivity when it comes to evidence based on whether the evidence agrees with the conspiracy theorist's view.

Agreed. A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses a person, group or organization of having caused or covered up an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact, with the conspiricists more concerned with being believed than with actually telling the truth, while concentrating their efforts on inspiring doubt in leadership and media instead of providing any effective solutions to the problems they claim are real.

The two greatest challenges anyone can make to a conspiricist are a demand for valid empirical evidence to support their claims (i.e. "Evidence, Please?"), and a demand to know what they are doing about it. This is because it seems that if someone is telling you their favorite conspiracy theory without supportive evidence or a plan for resolution, then it's a safe bet that the "Conspiracy" is all in their heads.


Exactly, and the conspiracy theorists in this thread continue to prove my point. For them, it's not about evidence; it's about being right at all costs. One of them (InvisibleMan191) even admits outright that he'll accept something as true without evidence.



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08 Jun 2013, 7:02 am

zer0netgain wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
lets see. 9/11 happened in 2001. The U.S. did not get into a war with a Muslim state until 2003. It is like comparing the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which occurred on 12/7/1941 and the U.S declaring war sometime in 1943.

ruveyn


Apples and oranges.

1. Everything that followed 9/11 (from the PATRIOT Act to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) would likely never have happened without the events of 9/11 to fuel the hysteria that made them come to pass.

2. The world was already at war when Pearl Harbor happened. America was fighting a division over whether to get involved or not. Pearl Harbor provided the momentum needed to change public opinion. As we were already providing weapons and supplies to allies in the war effort, it wasn't that hard to go all the way to being involved ourselves.


Im not defending these conspiracy hystericals, but we DID 'go to war with a muslim state' right after 9-11, and two years BEFORE we invaded Iraq.

Has anyone besides me ever heard of a place called "Afganistan"?

Ironically- it was a 'conspiracy theory' professed by the president himself that got us into Iraq. Along with fictitious WMD's Bush claimed Saddam Hussien was buddy-buddy with Ben Laden and that they were "co-conspirators" in 9-11. So that was why we had to invade Iraq, in addition to fighting in afganistan. Both invasions were retribution for 9-11. And the american people bought it. And soon Afganistan was on the back burner and pretty much forgotten by the president.

If you wanna use the Pearl Harbor analogy- it was as if FDR had concocted a cock-and-bull story that the Japanese had been taking orders from Rio De Janiero when they attacked Pearl Harbor, got the American people to buy it, and then used that as rationale to invade and conquer Brazil in 1943 (and then kinda forgot about the wars against both Germany and Japan while he proceded to beat the crap out of Brazil- ostensibly in revenge for Pearl Harbor-which the Brazilians had nothing to do with). That would be a more exact analogy to our invasion of Iraq in 2003.



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08 Jun 2013, 7:17 am

Sometimes its noticing a bigger picture via seeing smaller pieces of the puzzle.

From the Bible book of Revelation, Chapter 13 and 17 relate a Global Government, initial set up by international banking, (Revelation 18 )

So, this particular "conspiracy theory" considers a group of powerful elite, mainly the large banking families, who want to control the world, they are sometimes referred to as the Illuminati though they themselves are more likely to call themselves the Committee of 300
Their identifying logo always has some reference to an eye, especially one on a pyramid.

So, Iam at work and these people come in to set up a presentation in the House of Commons, and they are in possession of a placard announcing themselves, and their name "Demos" was written so that the "O" had a dot in the centre to look like an eye.
So, as a joke I say to them, "You are not one of these Illuminati companies are you with your stylized eye", they didn't appear to share my joke, in fact just answered a rather surprised "no"!.

So, anyway, I decide to look further into what turns out to be one of Britain's top 12 political think tanks and steering groups, and do you know what they were about steering towards?, Global Government.
Then more recently I see an article that says "Demos" are running a campaign in schools to stop the kids believing in conspiracy theories!

Like there is nothing more important to teach kids than to not believe in conspiracy theories, whilst not evidence in itself, I thought it Ironic that a company with an eye for a logo would be used to tell kids not to believe in conspiracy theories regarding such things as Jay Z Lady Ga Ga s frequent referring to the eye of the Dajjal in their videos.

It certainly shows these people take conspiracy theories seriously, there are even people employed to frequent forums to try and turn peoples opinions from believing in these "theories", generally, they dont come up with evidence themselves, and are very hard to debate with, as they invariably resort to sarcasm or trying to discredit the conspiracy theorist posters and end up hurling insults.

Regarding the One World Government theory, I have had it confirmed by senior politicians that this is where the World is heading, its evidence to me, but as I didnt record such, its just hearsay to you, the skeptics to me just look silly and desperate so I rarely debate such these days.



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08 Jun 2013, 12:35 pm

For the record, what you think NWO is isn't what the leaders quoted mean. Same word, but different definitions and goals and purposes.



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08 Jun 2013, 1:24 pm

InvisibleMan191 wrote:
Hell look at this:

'm fixing to show you undeniable proof this global conspiracy actually exists, each of these videos are no longer than maybe 3-7 minutes a piece:

Bush Sr.'s famous NWO speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA

Bill Clinton's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1etgsNU46s4

Barrack Obama's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4cA-o-kKPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SctOyyteias

Tony Blair's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oIXtA-N7s

Henry Kissinger's NWO Speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bKwH3kJew4


NOW, watch this, the Milgram Expirement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdb20gcc_Ns

Like I said, theyr publicly talking about it right to your faces. If an open confession is not enough proof, please don't ever get involved in detective work or jury work or anything, you'll send an innocent person to die for merely tossing out all the evidence you don't like.


Define the "New World Order". If it is globalisation, then call it globalisation and don't make out that this is some grand plan. If it is some grand plan to enslave everyone, provide some evidence!

A bunch of politicians stating the obvious- "the world is a lot smaller than it used to be"- is not "proof" of some "conspiracy".

If it is sooooooo obvious, then it shouldn't be hard for you to pick out the bits of those videos that particularly shock you. For example, if you think a despotic world government is coming because Obama said "the genocide in Darfur shames us all", then pick that out.



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08 Jun 2013, 4:55 pm

MCalavera wrote:
For the record, what you think NWO is isn't what the leaders quoted mean. Same word, but different definitions and goals and purposes.


What is the meaning then please?

The meaning I got from my Political informant was to relinquish Britain's sovereignty, and to be ruled by a World Government.

Whilst this might sound far fetched to some of you, its just another step up from the EU which in view of the lack of support by the citizens of these countries, might well be a demonstration of an earlier conspiracy.



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08 Jun 2013, 5:15 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Was it reasonable back then to believe without evidence that they were valid?

Is it reasonable to accept the 9/11 conspiracy theory as valid? What about the Apollo moon landing hoax theory? etc.


lol, I can't think of many things more scary than going to the moon with 1960s technology. 8O