On the care of the elderly

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16 Jun 2013, 12:06 pm

At the age of 52 I don't consider myself anywhere near elderly, yet I have been effectively written off by society due to my age. So my likely end is expressed in the poll option "They should be consigned to die in the gutter". I cannot find work, have no financial benefits and scratch an existence by cultivating vegetables in my garden plus my wife has a very small retirement pension. If my wife dies before me, my likely end will be dying homeless in a gutter somewhere or a rope, probably the latter.

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ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 2:27 pm

Probably a lot of Wrong Planet members are dependent upon government aid, or the generosity of others.

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16 Jun 2013, 2:43 pm

Yup.

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ruveyn
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16 Jun 2013, 4:24 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

A Social Security Recipient wrote:

How would you like to be forced at gun point to take care of an old person who you do not know or to whom you are not related? Are you a slave?
ruveyn

John Dunne wrote:

No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.

horses**t. You didn't answer the question I put. Do you think it is good to be a slave?

ruveyn

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16 Jun 2013, 4:50 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

Ideally it should be a combination.

1) The person should hopefully have saved during their working life to pay for their costs of living in old age
2) The children have responsibilities towards their parents and they should work to care for their parents, or provide money towards the cost of a carer (as well as giving some care themselves e.g. visiting as often as possible)
3) The government should pay some kind of pension. This can go towards care costs. If the children are being full time carers, then the government should pay them for their work.
4) The former employers of the person should also offer some kind of pension.

If a person become elderly without savings or children, for any reason, then the government should pick up the bill. The quality of that care should depend on why the person could not care for themselves. People who have been in low paid jobs (and their partners) and those unable to work get preferential treatment over anyone who chose to get by on benefits, but those people should still get all they require.

This is the most sensible answer so far, and it took someone who isn't American to come up with it. I think you need to take into account that the children themselves may not be able to financially contribute the their parents' care. I am too poor to do that. When my parents are sick, I will only be able to give them my time.

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ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 5:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:

horses**t. You didn't answer the question I put. Do you think it is good to be a slave?

ruveyn

If by "slave" you mean compulsory taxes, then where is anyone free?

ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 7:09 pm

^The answer to that one is Saudi Arabia, where the government brings in enough oil revenue such that Saudi citizens need not be taxed. A few other countries here and there are similarly "free."

But, regarding the "slavery" question

Thirteenth Amendment wrote:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

"Do you think it is good to be a slave" is simply an absurd question. I'm grateful to President Lincoln for having put an end to slavery.

ruveyn
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16 Jun 2013, 8:34 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Thirteenth Amendment wrote:

"Do you think it is good to be a slave" is simply an absurd question. I'm grateful to President Lincoln for having put an end to slavery.

Every hour spent on earning a wage which is then taken by force is involuntary servitude.

Raptor
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16 Jun 2013, 8:50 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ArrantPariah wrote:

Mrs. O'Connor was a closet socialist. As all of her teabaggers are.

Will this whinefest over that old woman ever come to an end?
:roll:

That's what I would like to know

I'm sure that this fad will eventually fade, but when?

They seem to be praising her, not whining.
BIG difference.

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ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 9:47 pm

Raptor wrote:

They seem to be praising her, not whining.
BIG difference.

They sure look like whiners to me.

Raptor
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16 Jun 2013, 9:48 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Raptor wrote:

They seem to be praising her, not whining.
BIG difference.

They sure look like whiners to me.

Winners, not whiners.

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ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 9:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Every hour spent on earning a wage which is then taken by force is involuntary servitude.

No. You always have the option of not earning a wage. It becomes involuntary if you are compelled to labour against your wishes.

ArrantPariah
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17 Jun 2013, 7:07 am

Raptor wrote:

ArrantPariah wrote:

Raptor wrote:

They seem to be praising her, not whining.
BIG difference.

They sure look like whiners to me.

Winners, not whiners.

Nope. They failed to elect their rich boy for president. That makes them losers and whiners.

androbot2084
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17 Jun 2013, 8:43 am

The Republicans won because they implemented sequestration which will eventually cut social security entitlements.

ruveyn
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17 Jun 2013, 8:47 am

androbot2084 wrote:

The Republicans won because they implemented sequestration which will eventually cut social security entitlements.

If social security is not cut in a careful fashion it will fail from its own lack of liquidity. Right now social security exists based on the principle that there is no limit to indebtedness. We can borrow an infinite amount or write an infinite number of I.O.U. s Eventually such a system must collapse.

ruveyn

ArrantPariah
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17 Jun 2013, 11:21 am

ruveyn wrote:

androbot2084 wrote:

The Republicans won because they implemented sequestration which will eventually cut social security entitlements.

If social security is not cut in a careful fashion it will fail from its own lack of liquidity. Right now social security exists based on the principle that there is no limit to indebtedness. We can borrow an infinite amount or write an infinite number of I.O.U. s Eventually such a system must collapse.

ruveyn

That's what the politicos want you to think.

If we wouldn't spend so much on toys like this

then social secutiry wouldn't be a problem.

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