MASSIVE rallies against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

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Why is rape a discussion in this thread? Rape is a world problem. It happens in every country. It only appears that rape is happening more in certain areas because they're being reported and then sensationalized on the news. No one cares about the other rapes because they can't be used politically.

Now on topic: I really do think one of the biggest problems that faces the world today is social conservatism. It doesn't matter what country you're in. Hopefully Egypt has learned that it needs a more secular society, but knowing the way things are politically, there's still millions soaking in propaganda and there's another not-so-good group try to gain power, using the same damn propaganda.

That's totally inaccurate, only his party voted for a more Muslim Turkey, the rest of the people voted him because they were DESPERATE for a better economy, Erdogan back then presented a good economic program and that's why he won, his economic results also what made him win the second run.

The message of the secular voters in Turkey is clear: "We have voted you because of what you have promised and done for the economy, not to Islamize our country". "Restoring Islam" in Turkey wasn't in the Erdgon's electoral speeches.

In muslim countries you can't really 'rape' someone since it's not a crime when you marry your victim.

That's says enough about the islam and muslim countries. They all hate each other, they are raised up by hatred against jews, western nations, non muslim people and even different kinds of islam.

Personally I have no clue what I should think about it, but I do think that muslims will kill each other more and more in the near future. China, Russia and Iran will continue to provoke new wars. Europe and America make huge profits as well from the new wars. Muslim countries should stop forcing their religion into everyone's life. That's the only way to have a peaceful life. If not, every muslim country will get their own civil war. And once they are weaker than ever, Israel/Iran/the world will nuke the s**t out of em.

As if Christians didn't kill each other in Europe LOL. There was so much love between European countries in pre-napoleon, Napoleonic wars and WWI/II.





If any new civil war will happen in every Muslim country, it would certainly be Moderate/secular vs Islamists. At least for the Arabs, there are than half of them who don't want Islam religion (and Sharia lifestyle) to be forced into their life.



Iran is Muslim and anti Israel too , unless you mean nuking Arabs, even Iran is leaning toward moderation, that's why the moderate party won the presidency, even the majority of Iranians want less Islam to be imposed on their lives.

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Another "Nuke them all" lover, it seems it's the western right wing dream; to "nuke" all Middle East so the west can "live in peace" - Yeah, because a nuclear war what would bring peace to the world, right. lol

Oh come on. Europe is fully secular. Very little people care about religion and will never fight for it. That's what I mean with hate from many muslims to western nations. You are talking about history, I talk about current situations. Do you really think it's big news here? The biggest news over here is crisis in The Netherlands/Europe, Tour de France, Dutch football league and transfers and of course some wars on this planet. (but with very little information, like they are still fighting in Syria, now back to the Tour de France..)

That's what I said right? They seem to have fun killing each other. I am not religious and can't understand to kill somone because my god is better than yours lol.

Many people want less religion in their life. It's manipulation and forcing you to be submissive to a god and even some 'leaders' who think they are semi gods as well. No one wants that. But why do you blame western nations? China and Russia are far more against islam than many western nations. In fact, europe is full with people who believe allah is their god. But even they want to kill Iran and Syria (Assad) and many other muslims which they don't like just because they are in different faction orso. I do not care at all.

Nuking is good for economy. It's a hard thing to say, but every well fare nation wants a war somewhere. China loves it, they make big bucks with the Syria war. Their economy is exploding. Europe is starting to make money as well now since the EU allowed to sell weapons to parties in Syria. 'Our' leaders (no I do not care about them as well lol..) care about money and not about people. Same counts for upcoming eastern nations.

My personal opinion is that almost humans are sick, both religious and non religious. But I do wonder why people fighting each other because they have a different type of religion. That would be impossible here and if it ever happens. Then I will move out of here, simple as that.

I am talking close history too, on the history scale WWII isn't that far back in time.




The killings are not happening because of gods or for fun, it is not that simple, there's only a small subgroup of muslims who are doing it because they think their God is better but Assad for instance isn't killing because of some god.




I am talking to WP's audience.
99% of members here are westerners, how many Chinese, Iranians and Russians you know here?

And I don't care if you're against Islam, I am atheist, but the nuke em all is a ret*d ideology.

You can't abolish Islam by nuking middle east, the only solution for Islamism cancer is by the rise of secular/moderates in those countries and facing extremism, and that's something Muslims must do themselves (and a lot are already doing it). Europe wouldn't become as advanced as today if the bishops and god-kings were still ruling; yea knowing history is important to learn where to go next.

World War II was a war because germany wanted to be the biggest and the best. Hitler hated jewish people so he killed them first. It had nothing to do with religion at all. (he hated jewish because they were rich people in germany, and german people themselves were poor) I don't even think hitler was christian orso. He didn't fight for a god or a spot in heaven. He fought because he thought he was an ubermensch, above all/most other humans.

I do know dutch muslims who entered this war, because they want to fight for allah and secure the best spots in heaven. There are quite some dutch/french/english websites who encourage muslims from europe to fight at the side of allah and kill assad. For example marokko.nl (dutch website for the huge community of moroccans in the netherlands and vlaanderen/belgium) people on there think it's great to fight this 'holy war' against everything what isn't muslim and would love to participate in the war or syria. Of course it's a 'small' group but still quite large in numbers. Why would people ever want to participate in a war which they don't know anything about? I only know one reason, religion.

You still seem to think religion is big in europe? I understand what you mean with history is important for everyone and learn from it. But really, in almost every european nation, religion is for people who want to believe. I am perfectly fine with that. Religion has almost no power anymore. If a dutch leader would tell, we go on war, we all would laugh. If he/she said we would make war because of a god, we would laugh and lock him up. (hopefully!)

Nuking is never a good idea, but let's not be naive now. There are many wars on this planet. And no one really knows why. Humans love to nuke for some reason. Also weapon industry is by far the mightiest and richest industry n the entire world. Porn industry is second btw hahaha.

The Muslim Brotherhood rule is no more.

Respect for the Egyptian people.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 03 Jul 2013, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's fantastic news!

Exactly, but the average westerner doesn't realise this. The western mainstream paints a deceptive picture of what is happening by trying to portray the conflict as one between theocrats and secularists. It's the economy, stupid. The Morsi government has badly fallen down over economic issues like unemployment, inflation, and poverty with no solutions in sight. The Egyptians don't want secularism or democracy. They first and foremost want a government that provides materially for them.



Morsi is a puppet of the west and the Zionists. What matters to the west is that their puppets are installed in a position of power in Islamic and third world countries. Whether they are politically left or right, or secular or theocratic is immaterial. Westerns nations would much rather see Islamic countries run by a moderately Islamic puppet rather than a staunchly secular nationalist one.



Don't celebrate too soon! The MB always was a bogus Islamic outfit run by the CIA and Zionists. Defeating the MB throws open the door for the real hardline Sharia types who are luking in the shadows.

You mean the Salafists? They're far fewer than MB.

No, I say today it was a huge blow to Islamism.





But the mainstream westerner isn't entirely wrong either on that matter, economy was a one major reason, but the Islamism agenda, the Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood was obviously trying to take the total control of Egypt and change the country's character completely.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opini ... ypt-momani

Touché!

Although I am generally quite pessimistic about the outcomes in the Islamic world, I cannot help but hope that this will *somewhat* dispel the notion that political Islam is a "solution" to anything.

The Muslim Brotherhood is the most influential of all Islamist organizations, not only in the Islamic world but also in the West. It is largely responsible for the development of the doctrines of both Al Qaeda (Sayyid Qutb) and Hamas (Ahmed Yassin). And for now, it looks like Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimeen will suffer a humiliating defeat on its home turf, Egypt. I will cry myself to sleep tonight...

It remains to be seen, however, if this development will convince the current supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood to abandon the Islamist agenda, to stand their ground, or to seek more extreme measures.

That's a secondary issue. The economy is the primary factor by far. There are even some critics who argue that Morsi was too cowardly on the Islamic front and buckled to pressure from Israel and the west when it came to implementing policy.



It's difficult to predict what the medium to long term outcome is for Egypt. Expect massive instability for the next few years as subsequent presidents will also be ousted when they fail to deliver.

I would reckon the chances of the Egyptians organizing themselves into a modern sustainable state is less than 1 in 4.

They have had a very bad track record. Their governments have been corrupt and incompetent and it is no wonder the people of Egypt are collectively tearing their hair out in frustration. The Israelis could tell them how to get their sh*t straight but the Egyptians will never take advice (good or bad) from Jews. It is against their nature.

ruveyn

I think it depend on which Egyptians you're talking about. When Jon Stewart recently appeared on his Egyptian counterpart's TV show, he was applauded by the audience, despite his Jewishness. From there, Stewart and his Egyptian friend discussed the relevant topics of the day, including Israel. It's this young, educated, revolutionary class of Egyptians who are their country's best hope, and who would probably take advice from their Israeli neighbors.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer