the patriarchy is still here.

Post Reply New Topic

@GGP viper, I saw all kinds of men during the last election talking about how access to birth control, access to abortion, equal pay for equal work, etc. weren't "real" issues, so I hope you'll forgive me for assuming that when you say that this issue 'lacks meaningful content,' I automatically think that you mean, 'it lacks content that I, as a man, care about.'

We could - of course - worry about real world problems instead...

Well, then how about posting threads about the electoral preferences concerning birth control, access to abortion, equal pay for equal work etc. (since what people vote for actually has real world consequences) rather than the feedback from a Google auto-complete algorithm?

puddingmouse started a thread with the intent to direct Feminism to real world issues, with religous discrimination of women and female genital mutilation as the top priorities.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt239983.html
What was your first post in that thread? A commentary on Rebecca Watson's horrifying "Elevatorgate" incident". And your first priority was women "not being interrupted" in conversation.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5620669 ... t=#5620669

Wrt. Rebecca Watson and elevatorgate: Her initial statement on the issue was a reasonable, 'Guys, please don't do that. Especially not after I've just given a talk on how it makes me uncomfortable to be treated in that manner.' Hardly the rabid, anti-male, anti-sex rant that the exploding internet subsequently accused her of - and certainly not something deserving of the death and rape threats that she subsequently received in multitudes. http://youtu.be/DYw-HjKrmY4
Wrt. feminists 'wanting to be treated like ladies,' evidence please? I've never heard a single feminist of my generation (gen x) or later use the word 'lady' in a non-disparaging mannere.
Wrt. my priorities as a feminist:
cultural shifts so that women are not interrupted when speaking more than men are.
cultural shifts so that women and men who do not fit their gender stereotypes (ie, the size 39 and size 42 shoe sizes mentioned earlier by someone else) are seen as somehow deviant and/or less valuable as human beings.
cultural shifts so that female politicains are not judged by their sexual appeal, regardless of their wing or party.
cultural shifts so that men being punished for raping someone is not seen as more tragic than women being raped; likewise, shifts so that a person is not seen as more irresponsible for (for example) having been in ouside in a public place at night, and getting raped, than was the person who actually raped her or him.
Cultural shifts so that men and women with equal sexual experiences are not seen as respectively 'losers' or 'frigid' if inexperienced and 'players/pimps/alpha males' or 'sluts' if sexually experienced.
cultural shifts so that people in general recognize that rape= sex without consent, regardless of the means or the genders involved.
Access to reproductive health care, especially including **prevention**, for all people, and comprehensive sex ed so that everyone knows what their options are, where to get them, and how to use them. Access to abortion with the limits set by Roe v. Wade and later Supreme Court cases.
Cultural shifts so that a person is seen as a person, regardless of if they're a he or a she, asian or black or aspie or white or hispanic or inuit or genetically three feet tall.sd
Note that, with the exception of the contraception/abortion issue, I'm NOT advocating for making ANY laws about this, as some men sometimes accuse feminists of. I'm all about raising awareness and changing cultural norms.
edit: the premise that women are reproductively more valuable than men is based on the premise that males have more sexual partners than females. In species that tend to form pair-bonds, this is not the case; the removal of a male does as much damage to the population as the removal of a female. One would think that a MRA, who talks incessantly about the value of fathers, would understand this.

Here's the entirety of the post that you just referenced (hint: "wrt" means "with regard to," or, in other words, I'm responding to a subject that someone else brought up)

Wrt. my priorities as a feminist:

So, yeah. My priorities as a feminist reflect the reality that I live every day, and not someone else's reality on the other side of the planet. Does that surprise you?

Most American MRAs focus their priorities on interactions with American women, American courts of law, and American culture too. Does that make them biased against, say, Japanese salarymen who are still expected to make enough to support an entire family (because the women are expected to quit their jobs once they have kids), despite the down economy and the lack of job stability? To me the Japanese guys are far worse off than the American guys, but I don't expect the American guys to change their focus. Maybe to comment on it once in a while - and I have commented on FGM, and the impact of fundamentalists on women in this and other countries - but not to make it their primary focus.

Exactly what I said, then. Y U RAGE?

But it's so nice of you to present yourself as the poster child of the "First World Problems" meme.

To illustrate a recent case (which IMO should be of significant concern to feminists, in particular): I am neither female, Pakistani, Asian nor Muslim, and I live more than 5,000 kilometres from Pakistan, so I really shouldn't give a sh** about Malala Yousafzai being shot in the head because she wanted to go to school.

I just don't care.

If you were *really* interested in the oppression, discrimination and marginalization of women, you would apply your focus accordingly: 90 percent of your posts should focus on one (or more) of these topics: Africa, Islam, India.

Otherwise, you come across as someone simply buying into feminism to reap a personal benefit.

You think that's rage? Wow, so sensitive. I'll try harder to not hurt your feelings.

You implied that I brought up the topics that I was responding to, and then you picked out one item from a list of about ten that I was concerned with. I think that your presentation of what I meant was inaccurate, so I pulled my entire quote so any readers can see for themselves what I said.

you say that like it's a bad thing. Should we give up on making things better here because someone else has it worse of somewhere else? Do we give up on feeding the homeless in America because people are starving to death elsewhere?

How about you head over to feministing.com, Salon.com, or any of another dozen progressive/feminists sites and do a search on 'Malala'? Caring about our own problems does not mean that we 'don't give a sh**' about other people's problems. Concern for the two are not mutually exclusive.

About which part?

*snort*
So you're the sole arbiter of what should concern women, now?

Uh, dude. Yeah. I'm into feminism because it benefits me as a woman to be treated as a human being. I don't see that as selfish or bad. I'd like to see that recognition extended to women around the world, and if I ever meet someone here who's a sexist dick from Africa, India, or some fundie oppressive religion from anywhere in the world, I will (and have) go after them and attempt to change their minds. However, I live in the US and the vast, vast majority of posters here are from the western world, and since I don't have a hell of a lot of disposable income, the progress that I can make is changing minds in that context only.

So, is that ok? I hope you weren't burned too badly by my "rage" this time.

edit: this seems relevant here:
http://manboobz.com/2013/10/23/vox-day- ... stifiable/