The true extent of wealth disparity in the USA

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adb
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06 Nov 2013, 5:36 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
You are being sarcastic right? The fact is that the elites have stolen value from those that create it. Just one example, the latest economic crisis was caused by Wall Street and yet their profits continue to climb while we pay for their losses. In other words they have destroyed (not created value) and have been rewarded for that. Why? Because Wall Street and the banks control the government. It is not because CEOs are good at creating wealth. Many companies have dramatically declined in value and yet the CEO that caused the decline is rewarded.
Work ( both creative and manual) creates value. The elites merely bet on our productivity. We do not need them to create value.

What boggles my mind is that even while both democrats and republicans believe that the corrupt elite plunder the masses through controlling the government, they continue to vote to expand the power of government. The stupidity of it amazes me.



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06 Nov 2013, 6:27 pm

Viper,
I realize that you have difficulty understanding what everyone else understands. So for you,and only you I will make it more elementary.
If I created my own company or not has nothing to do with this thread. Since you only understand personal attacks you make every debate personal. Attack the argument not the person. *
My point (I apologize to other WP readers, I am not making this extremely simple for you) is that there are alternatives to a single owner. For example, cooperatives. Viper, if even that was too difficult for you to understand, please ask a specific question so I will know what confuses you.
* For example an "argument" that follows the form of your "argumentation " would be,
1. Wittgenstein says that one should give to charity.
2. Wittgenstein does not give to charity.
3. Therefore one should not give to charity.
I hope you can see that that is a fallacy.If I formed a cooperative or not has nothing to do with the value of cooperatives.
PS: I do give to charity. I was showing that your argument follows an invalid form. If you want I can explain to you the difference between validity and truth. Aww what the heck, I know you are too proud to ask a question.
Here is an argument that is valid and true.
1. All men are mortal
2. Socrates was a man.
3. Therefore Socrates was mortal.
Here is an argument that is valid but not true.
1. All Martains eat snakes.
2. Bob is a Martain.
3. Therefore, Bob eats snakes.
Here is an argument that is invalid but true.
1. Obama is a Democrat.
2. Biden is a Democrat.
3. Therefore Carter is a Democrat.


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Last edited by wittgenstein on 06 Nov 2013, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GGPViper
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06 Nov 2013, 6:36 pm

/\ :lol:



wittgenstein
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06 Nov 2013, 6:42 pm

Thanks for proving me right. You cannot understand arguments and logic and only offer childish ad hominums. I won again! :D


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06 Nov 2013, 6:42 pm

Repeat post


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06 Nov 2013, 6:51 pm

/\ :lol: :lol:



wittgenstein
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06 Nov 2013, 7:04 pm

OK It is obvious that you are a troll. One that never offers an argument.
And it is obvious that you think your argument is valid.
1. Wittgenstein says that cooperatives are a way to let those that create value (workers) replace speculators.
2. Wittgenstein never formed his own cooperative. *
3. Therefore, cooperatives are not a way to let those that create value (workers) replace speculators.
You really should take a logic course. Perhaps,at least you would stop committing the logical fallacy called ad hominum and looking childish.
* OK I know you want that spelled out. Technically I am a part owner. I am calling it "mine" like when I say, "my country".


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06 Nov 2013, 7:19 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
You really should take a logic course. Perhaps,at least you would stop committing the logical fallacy called ad hominum and looking childish.

You should take a fact course, pseudo-philosopher.

When you can create companies comparable to:

- Wal-Mart
- Volkswagen
- Toyota
- Samsung
- Daimler
- General Electric
- Ford
- Hewlett-Packard
- IBM
- Siemens

... instead of trivial homesteads... let me know...



The_Walrus
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06 Nov 2013, 7:22 pm

pete1061 wrote:

You sound like a communist. Sorry, the USSR failed.

So has nearly every country in existence. What makes you think that any modern country is a guaranteed success?



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06 Nov 2013, 7:40 pm

Hmmmm, viper
So if I cannot create a company the size of Wal-Mart, that proves that cooperatives do not put economic power into the hands of workers and away from the hands of speculators? :D :D :D
Obviously, since you lack any rational arguments, you resort to base less namecalling,pseudo philosopher.


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wittgenstein
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06 Nov 2013, 7:55 pm

There are many huge cooperatives. Land O Lakes to mention just one. You really should do some research.
But anyway a list of huge cooperatives and a list of huge corporations has nothing at all to do with the proposition: cooperatives put economic power into the hands of those that create value and away from the speculators.
I merely pointed out that your opinion that cooperatives are always tiny is massively uninformed. So your empirical data is wrong and your argument is outrageously invalid.
I gave examples of 1. an argument that is true and valid.2. an argument that is not true and yet valid. 3. an argument that is true and not valid. I forgot the 4th form of argument 4. an argument that is not true and not valid. Your "argument" resembles
1. Nixon was a Democrat
2. Bush was a Democrat
3. Therefore, Reagan was a Democrat!
:D :D :D :D


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I went up over 50 feet!
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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


Last edited by wittgenstein on 06 Nov 2013, 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LKL
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06 Nov 2013, 8:24 pm

GGPViper wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
You really should take a logic course. Perhaps,at least you would stop committing the logical fallacy called ad hominum and looking childish.

You should take a fact course, pseudo-philosopher.

When you can create companies comparable to:

- Wal-Mart
- Volkswagen
- Toyota
- Samsung
- Daimler
- General Electric
- Ford
- Hewlett-Packard
- IBM
- Siemens

... instead of trivial homesteads... let me know...

Viper, have you created any multi-national conglomerations yet? If not, does that mean that we can dismiss everything you say?



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06 Nov 2013, 8:45 pm

LKL wrote:
Not to mention that the very CEOs who drove the banks into the ground got bonuses and pats on the back.

One thing about these debates that *is* useful, is that it keeps us from being in echo-chambers where we're only exposed to the facts and points of view that we, and those who agree with us, are supported by.


I took classes from a Nobel Prize winning economist who does not feel welcome in the university's business school. He taught us in the International Affairs building and hangs out in the history department. Either the world is selecting terrible people for Nobel Prizes in Economics or something quite mad is happening on Wall Street.


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06 Nov 2013, 9:12 pm

Wow. Are you comfortable revealing the name of the person in question?



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06 Nov 2013, 10:32 pm

LKL wrote:
Wow. Are you comfortable revealing the name of the person in question?


Not really, will send you a PM.


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07 Nov 2013, 6:10 am

LKL wrote:
Viper, have you created any multi-national conglomerations yet? If not, does that mean that we can dismiss everything you say?

No, but I do not make the following claim: "We do not need them to create value." So I do not need to demonstrate the viability of my alternative to to the evil capitalism of capitalist evil.