[ Bible ] Capitalism is a Christian Concept

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Fnord
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11 Nov 2013, 7:10 pm

The Bible is either "For" or "Against" capitalism. Which is it?



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11 Nov 2013, 10:34 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Absolutely. My point was, the material gospel people - who thankfully aren't representative of any sort of mainstream in this country - put their own ideology on a part of the Bible, but ignores the rest.
I think a fine distinction always needs to be made, between the false doctrine that God will always give material wealth to those who follow Him, and the truth that such blessings are often granted in line with God's knowledge of how you'll use them. God won't supernaturally give someone a million dollars, if He knows they'll just remain selfish with it. Blessings are meant to be shared, not hoarded...but wisdom is also a very important factor.


It ought to be recalled that Jesus and his disciples never got rich. In fact, they all ended up dirt poor in material wealth.


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11 Nov 2013, 10:38 pm

^ However, both David and his son Solomon died as wealthy kings.



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11 Nov 2013, 11:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
^ However, both David and his son Solomon died as wealthy kings.


But neither were the Son of God, or his immediate followers.


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12 Nov 2013, 12:26 am

Fnord wrote:
The Bible is either "For" or "Against" capitalism. Which is it?
God never said His followers couldn't have money, so long as they didn't place it above Him in their hearts. Before he turned traitor, Judas Iscariot was the treasurer for Jesus' ministry. Why would anyone need someone like that, unless it was to deal with money?


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12 Nov 2013, 1:32 am

Fnord wrote:
"Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them." -- Matthew 13:12 (NIV)

Now, doesn't that seem like the perfect description of Capitalism?

So, if the Bible supports it, it must be right, right?

Actually, Christians were the first socialists busy trying to fill in the gaps around them. When they saw people starving, they fed them. Where they were sick, they healed them. Sounds like socialism.



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12 Nov 2013, 2:57 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The Bible is either "For" or "Against" capitalism. Which is it?
God never said His followers couldn't have money, so long as they didn't place it above Him in their hearts. Before he turned traitor, Judas Iscariot was the treasurer for Jesus' ministry. Why would anyone need someone like that, unless it was to deal with money?


or that story was included in scripture as a sign that money corrupts?

anyway the "bible" was written before capitalism so should not be expected to have anything to say about it.
it is remarkably silent on X-boxes as well.


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12 Nov 2013, 10:31 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
or that story was included in scripture as a sign that money corrupts?
Scripture never says money corrupts. It does say that the love of money is a root for all kinds of evil, though. Again, it all goes back to the heart, and what our highest priorities are.


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12 Nov 2013, 12:52 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA
I think you are confusing Jesus with supply side Jesus. Common mistake as people confuse right wing fundamentalists with Christians. They are followers of supply side Jesus, not Jesus. They worship the opposite of Christ, the anti-Christ!
PS; The site given in this post is a seriously fantastic video!


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12 Nov 2013, 1:56 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA
I think you are confusing Jesus with supply side Jesus. Common mistake as people confuse right wing fundamentalists with Christians. They are followers of supply side Jesus, not Jesus. They worship the opposite of Christ, the anti-Christ!
PS; The site given in this post is a seriously fantastic video!

It's true because Jesus wanted to feed, heal and provide comfort. He absolutely did not care about wealth or money. It was His followers who concerned themselves with it, not him, which prevails among them today.



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12 Nov 2013, 2:26 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA
I think you are confusing Jesus with supply side Jesus. Common mistake as people confuse right wing fundamentalists with Christians. They are followers of supply side Jesus, not Jesus. They worship the opposite of Christ, the anti-Christ!
PS; The site given in this post is a seriously fantastic video!


Since the religious right aligned itself with the political right, they have been associating capitalism with Christ.


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12 Nov 2013, 2:29 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Capitalism may not be perfect, but it's the only system that's proven to actually work.


It depends what you mean by 'work'. In regards to human progress, yes, capitalism is the best system when it comes to innovation, technological progression and so forth, however when it comes to human rights and the exploitation of third world countries in order to produce more capital and financial gain, it has failed to work.



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12 Nov 2013, 2:42 pm

I believe capitalism can work but it has to work in a more regulated environment in which greedy capitalists wanting more and more financial gain are not able to exploit third-world countries to attain more capital, create financial recessions and thus lose many people their jobs in the name of 'free-trade'. Capitalism has worked wonders in the domain of human progression and technological innovation and even Karl Marx accepted that a system based on profit had done many things for humanity that could be considered valuable. It has led to the creation of shoes, houses, sewage systems, clothing and so forth, however now that we have this system in place it needs more regulation and more socialistic principles I think need to be implemented. Communism enforced by government(which Karl Marx would say is not communism since it needs to be implemented by the working class themselves) has clearly not worked in Russia and China and has produced a higher death rate than Hitler and the third Reich and caused mass amounts of famine leading to cannibalism. To say that we can produce a utopian idealistic society based on hippie-like values in which we are all living in communes in a communistic fashion seems only but a delusional fantasy and as we can see by Russia and China has led to the most extreme forms of political violence. The sea we have to sail to attain utopia is a sea of blood.

Saying this, this does not mean that capitalism can carry on exploiting third world countries for cheap labor and engineering recessions and so forth. For too long I think we have been living under the illusion that this is a necessary by-product of free-trade when I wouldn't say it is free-trade in the slightest. It is a small conglomerate of businesses and multinational corporations that have created a monopoly over what was a free-trade market and have used the myth of 'free-trade' to justify the ever increasing centralization of resources. Yes, of course, once in a while one hears a story about an individual who made it from rags to riches but these are extremely rare examples when compared to those living in extreme poverty because of the exploitation that has been committed in the name of capitalism. So, I would say keep capitalism and accept that it has done wonderful things for humanity but also accept that more state-regulation needs to implemented- banker bonuses must be limited, mp expenses must be limited, profits reigned in and higher taxes on the rich instead of creating higher taxes for the poor when it is the later who own the wealth. Also higher taxes on those companies that are endangering the environment and exploiting finite resources. More environmental friendly capitalism. So yeah....Sorry, this probably sounded like a disorganized moronic rant. :oops:



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12 Nov 2013, 2:44 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Capitalism may not be perfect, but it's the only system that's proven to actually work.


Exodus 20 wrote:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


If people stopped coveting crap that they didn't need, then capitalism would cease to function.


I wouldn't say this is the case at all. The capitalism has also produced necessities such as sustainable sewage systems and so forth, which I would say people would not be willing to build and sustain if there were not a monetary incentive.



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12 Nov 2013, 3:04 pm

fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Capitalism may not be perfect, but it's the only system that's proven to actually work.


Exodus 20 wrote:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


If people stopped coveting crap that they didn't need, then capitalism would cease to function.


I wouldn't say this is the case at all. The capitalism has also produced necessities such as sustainable sewage systems and so forth, which I would say people would not be willing to build and sustain if there were not a monetary incentive.


because these things did not exist in pre-contact and hence pre-capitalist mexico?


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Their hungry thirsty roots??

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12 Nov 2013, 3:24 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
fibonaccispiral777 wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Capitalism may not be perfect, but it's the only system that's proven to actually work.


Exodus 20 wrote:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


If people stopped coveting crap that they didn't need, then capitalism would cease to function.


I wouldn't say this is the case at all. The capitalism has also produced necessities such as sustainable sewage systems and so forth, which I would say people would not be willing to build and sustain if there were not a monetary incentive.


because these things did not exist in pre-contact and hence pre-capitalist mexico?


I don't know. Enlighten me. Plus, I am not aware of how big their society was in relation to ours and how sufficient their society was.