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Why do Christians Scowl at Evolution?

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Sherlock03
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15 Nov 2013, 8:51 pm

Touchy, touchy.


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Bezeone
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16 Nov 2013, 1:03 am

GGPViper wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Also snake do not and cannot talk due to lack of vocal chords *sorry Ggpviper* Although the idea of talking snakes is awesome its not possible at all neither can humans be created from a rib when male and female of each speicies existed prior to the whole Adam and Eve crap.

Ezekiel 28:13-18, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Since Adam and Eve were not adorned with gems, nor did they had pipes, Satan was either manipulating the snake or WAS the snake. Just because Satan isn't God doesn't mean he's weak.

I am *not* Satan, and I was *not* manipulated by him (he wasn't even there at the time... He was still in law school). The naked woman was hungry, and I simply suggested that she should eat an apple! Why all the hatin' on snakes?


Honestly, if Christianity was trying to associate any type of creature with evil, that would be the Dragon.



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16 Nov 2013, 1:14 am

^^^^But dragons are awesome.
Familiar with the fact that it wasn't really an apple,I've heard it was sex.So in that case a cherry maybe. :lol:
And as for snakes in mustard sauce,I prefer succulent toddlers in an orange sauce.


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16 Nov 2013, 3:10 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c[/youtube]


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16 Nov 2013, 8:21 am

GGPViper wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Also snake do not and cannot talk due to lack of vocal chords *sorry Ggpviper* Although the idea of talking snakes is awesome its not possible at all neither can humans be created from a rib when male and female of each speicies existed prior to the whole Adam and Eve crap.

Ezekiel 28:13-18, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Since Adam and Eve were not adorned with gems, nor did they had pipes, Satan was either manipulating the snake or WAS the snake. Just because Satan isn't God doesn't mean he's weak.

I am *not* Satan, and I was *not* manipulated by him (he wasn't even there at the time... He was still in law school). The naked woman was hungry, and I simply suggested that she should eat an apple! Why all the hatin' on snakes?
Did you give birth to 35 offsrping? [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-8pvgCXWQ[/youtube]


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ruveyn
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16 Nov 2013, 10:33 am

Not all Christians "scowl" at evolution. For example Judge Jones who presided over the Dover (PA) trial is a republican Christian gentleman appointed by President Bush to the Federal Bench found for the plaintiffs (pro evolution side) in the case complaining that Fundie Crap Doodle was being introduced into the school course at Dover PA public schools under the guise of "Intelligent Design".

Kenneth Miller is a practicing Catholic, therefore a Christian and he wrote a pro-evolution book called "In Search of Darwin's God" so you contention that "Christians" scowl at evolution is at best half true. It is Fundie Christians who insist that the Bible is literally true that do the "scowling". The Bible clearly implies the Earth is about 6000 years old and there is no time for evolution to happn on Earth. Only one problem: It is more likely true that the Earth is 4 billion years old and there has been plenty of time for life to come into being and vary by way of natural selection. That is the heart of Darwin's theory of descent with modification (Darwin did not refer to his theory as "Evolution", rather he called it descent with modification).


Bottom line. The assertion that Christians "scowl" at evolution is a generalization not supported by fact.

ruveyn



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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16 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

They will never resolve this conflict because they are just juxtaposed. You cannot be a Christian scientist. That's just gibberish. You are either Christian or scientist. Not both.



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16 Nov 2013, 2:14 pm

Janissy wrote:
Asperger96 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents:

Earlier in humanity, humans were dumb. We still are, just less dumb.

I think much of the first book is metaphorical, written in terms that would make some sense to uneducated man.

I think "7 days" refer to "7 periods of creation or 7 milestones"


Dumb? I don't think so. Earlier in humanity the (evolutionarily modern) humans were quite possibly smarter than us.* They just had far less accumulated knowledge. We stand on the shoulders of giants. They are the ones who figured out how to harness fire, make a spear with combined spearhead and other technological feats that we just take for granted but they invented. They also invented some truly insightful creation myths.

Taken as metaphor, the Garden of Eden creation story dovetails elegantly with the observations of evolution. It is staggeringly insightful. If you take it as metaphor, eating from the Tree of Knowledge really is what got us cast out from the Garden of Eden and really is what makes childbirth painful for women, just like the story says. Painful childbirth is a direct consequence of giant baby heads to hold giant baby brains coupled with small pelvises to make walking upright possible. Before we got so smart with giant brains and the ability to walk upright, childbirth would have been much easier (as it observably is for other primates). It got hard when we ate from the Tree of Knowledge- got smarter.

Getting smarter also got us kicked out of Eden. Once you have the abstract intelligence to conceptualize death and its' ramifications, you aren't in Eden anymore. You now are smart enough to worry, fret and agonize over the future and your own future death and the death of people you love. Looked at that way, the story is very insightful.

For that matter, isn't "And God said, 'Let there be light'" a good parallel to the Big Bang?

I am not familiar with the creation stories of other cultures, but I expect they also have nuggets of profound insight.

*They had superior food sources, although less of them. They also didn't have exposure to the enviromental toxins that dull a brain that we do, such as lead and other heavy metals. They had exposure to infectious disease, but probably not all that much back in the beginning, since it was civilization that really got our modern diseases going.


Well, that is what I meant. When I say "dumb" I'm strictly referring to knowledge of pretty much anything. (I don't know if that makes sense, but I have trouble getting my meaning across)

Early humans were simple and superstitious, they learned everything from oral tradition.

If you are telling someone the story of history, and you know that they need to like and remember the story in order for it to pass to the next generation, are you going to bore them with a bunch of facts that probably didn't make a bit of sense at the time? No.

Children like fantastical stories, and that is just what they got.



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16 Nov 2013, 2:28 pm

Janissy wrote:

Dumb? I don't think so. Earlier in humanity the (evolutionarily modern) humans were quite possibly smarter than us.* They just had far less accumulated knowledge. We stand on the shoulders of giants. They are the ones who figured out how to harness fire, make a spear with combined spearhead and other technological feats that we just take for granted but they invented. They also invented some truly insightful creation myths.

Taken as metaphor, the Garden of Eden creation story dovetails elegantly with the observations of evolution. It is staggeringly insightful. If you take it as metaphor, eating from the Tree of Knowledge really is what got us cast out from the Garden of Eden and really is what makes childbirth painful for women, just like the story says. Painful childbirth is a direct consequence of giant baby heads to hold giant baby brains coupled with small pelvises to make walking upright possible. Before we got so smart with giant brains and the ability to walk upright, childbirth would have been much easier (as it observably is for other primates). It got hard when we ate from the Tree of Knowledge- got smarter.

Getting smarter also got us kicked out of Eden. Once you have the abstract intelligence to conceptualize death and its' ramifications, you aren't in Eden anymore. You now are smart enough to worry, fret and agonize over the future and your own future death and the death of people you love. Looked at that way, the story is very insightful.

For that matter, isn't "And God said, 'Let there be light'" a good parallel to the Big Bang?

I am not familiar with the creation stories of other cultures, but I expect they also have nuggets of profound insight.

*They had superior food sources, although less of them. They also didn't have exposure to the enviromental toxins that dull a brain that we do, such as lead and other heavy metals. They had exposure to infectious disease, but probably not all that much back in the beginning, since it was civilization that really got our modern diseases going.


That is a good post. I too have serious doubts about this idea that prehistoric man was some numbskull who lacked our modern day intelligence. We are the children of those who came before us and if they hadn't made those first steps from the trees we wouldn't even be here now.



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17 Nov 2013, 9:15 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZojkNsQy8c[/youtube]


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17 Nov 2013, 9:17 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKVNWwk7LIg[/youtube]


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17 Nov 2013, 9:24 am

You know what's really weird is school is such a failed social experiment people believe the only way to get anyone to behave when in a group is to force religion on them. Maybe it's the concept of school that's the problem not the fact people cannot pray there?



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17 Nov 2013, 9:31 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw[/youtube]


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17 Nov 2013, 12:58 pm

Janissy wrote:
Asperger96 wrote:
Here's my 2 cents:

Earlier in humanity, humans were dumb. We still are, just less dumb.

I think much of the first book is metaphorical, written in terms that would make some sense to uneducated man.

I think "7 days" refer to "7 periods of creation or 7 milestones"


Dumb? I don't think so. Earlier in humanity the (evolutionarily modern) humans were quite possibly smarter than us.* They just had far less accumulated knowledge. We stand on the shoulders of giants. They are the ones who figured out how to harness fire, make a spear with combined spearhead and other technological feats that we just take for granted but they invented. They also invented some truly insightful creation myths.

Taken as metaphor, the Garden of Eden creation story dovetails elegantly with the observations of evolution. It is staggeringly insightful. If you take it as metaphor, eating from the Tree of Knowledge really is what got us cast out from the Garden of Eden and really is what makes childbirth painful for women, just like the story says. Painful childbirth is a direct consequence of giant baby heads to hold giant baby brains coupled with small pelvises to make walking upright possible. Before we got so smart with giant brains and the ability to walk upright, childbirth would have been much easier (as it observably is for other primates). It got hard when we ate from the Tree of Knowledge- got smarter.

Getting smarter also got us kicked out of Eden. Once you have the abstract intelligence to conceptualize death and its' ramifications, you aren't in Eden anymore. You now are smart enough to worry, fret and agonize over the future and your own future death and the death of people you love. Looked at that way, the story is very insightful.

For that matter, isn't "And God said, 'Let there be light'" a good parallel to the Big Bang?

I am not familiar with the creation stories of other cultures, but I expect they also have nuggets of profound insight.

*They had superior food sources, although less of them. They also didn't have exposure to the enviromental toxins that dull a brain that we do, such as lead and other heavy metals. They had exposure to infectious disease, but probably not all that much back in the beginning, since it was civilization that really got our modern diseases going.


Whilst appreciate the efforts that some Christians make to interpret Genesis in a metaphorical way, I think any similarities between the Genesis creation myth and scientific fact are coincidental.


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17 Nov 2013, 1:05 pm

The most powerful Christian organisation on the planet has no issue with evolution and most of its clerics agree that evolution is fact. However, I've met many lay Catholics who refuse to believe in evolution as vehemently as your average evangelical protestant does. I wish the Church would do its credibility a favour and make belief in evolution an official position. Actually, no I don't want that - I want the RC church to keep discrediting itself :twisted: It would lead to a big increase in the number of Christians believing in evolution and possibly change the public position of 'Christianity' on this debate...but nah, keep damaging thyself, Christendom!


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18 Nov 2013, 4:35 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1xJCI9yEgw[/youtube]


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