What is morally (un)acceptable?

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salamandaqwerty
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18 Apr 2014, 10:34 pm

Farting in an elevator
Everything else is a grey area

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Kraichgauer
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18 Apr 2014, 10:45 pm

Raptor wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

If we are in fact a Christian country, as conservatives insist, then we have to actually live by Christian morality and care for those who don't have enough, or have made mistakes in their lives. And that means that mother and her children.

There's a difference between charity for those in actual NEED and those that take advantage.

Quote:

And as the tax burden is shared by literally millions of Americans, I seriously doubt the tax payer is going to suffer all that much by providing birth control.

It's the principle of it.

Quote:

And by the way, while I don't know what your position on abortion is, but the fact is, more birth control means far less abortions, regardless of some on the far right might claim (yes, they say birth control leads to abortion :roll:

It's not about birth control itself.
It's about who's paying for it and personal responsibilities; two concepts that seem to always elude liberals.

Principle is more important than keeping the underprivileged fed, clothed, and housed?
As for personal responsibility, and who's really deserving in my humble opinion are just excuses for not helping people. Who doesn't make mistakes? And there are plenty of people who will look at some quadriplegic on public assistance, and say that person isn't deserving.

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Raptor
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18 Apr 2014, 11:20 pm

/\ Reaching a bit far, aren't we?
Whatever.....
:roll: :roll:

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Kraichgauer
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19 Apr 2014, 12:03 am

Raptor wrote:

/\ Reaching a bit far, aren't we?
Whatever.....
:roll:

Nothing reaching when it comes to keeping people fed.

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Stannis
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19 Apr 2014, 5:31 am

Raptor wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

There's a difference between charity for those in actual NEED and those that take advantage.

Quote:

And as the tax burden is shared by literally millions of Americans, I seriously doubt the tax payer is going to suffer all that much by providing birth control.

It's the principle of it.

Quote:

It's not about birth control itself.
It's about who's paying for it and personal responsibilities; two concepts that seem to always elude liberals.

Many libertarians would let the world burn so as not to violate their "principles". Unfortunately this kind of ethical myopia is not purely a symptom of the right. Seriously, if your principles result in far more harm than they mitigate, what do you persist with them for

Raptor, please watch this.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=korGK0yGIDo[/youtube]

Last edited by Stannis on 19 Apr 2014, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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19 Apr 2014, 11:34 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

There have been far right Republicans running for office who have had banning contraceptives - or at least, federal coverage for contraceptives for poor women - as a campaign plank while running for office.

Ah, well, there's a vast chasm between "Nobody should be forced to pay for somebody else's use of X" and "Nobody should be permitted to have X". I don't think a single penny of my hard-earned should be forcibly taken in order to supply Sandra Fluke with pills, condoms, lube, porn, or anything else, but I wouldn't stop her from buying her own stuff, nor prevent you from buying her those things if you are so inclined.

, I think in the end not having federal coverage for contraceptives would cost the taxpayers more than if there is federal coverage. I love how many conservatives will go on about how everyone needs to contribute to society but then are butthurt about having to pay their taxes.

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Sweetleaf
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19 Apr 2014, 11:38 am

Raptor wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

As for denying contraception to poor women under the banner of tax payers rights - well, what's cheaper, paying for birth control pills or condoms, or paying for medical, food, and housing for a child a woman might not yet be ready to have?

Deny them both, then. I don't see why John Q. Taxpayer should be on the hook for careless promiscuity of people that know they can't afford to be carelessly promiscuous. What happens in today's system is they never learn and have whole litters that we get stuck with the tab for. That's just plain wrong.

Yes even having sex for pleasure should be a privilege for non-poor people, what would you prefer the tax money used for covering such things be used for?

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Misslizard
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19 Apr 2014, 11:42 am

^Bombs and aircraft carriers.I suppose if you kill them,then they can't breed.

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Sweetleaf
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19 Apr 2014, 11:45 am

Raptor wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

There's a difference between charity for those in actual NEED and those that take advantage.

Quote:

And as the tax burden is shared by literally millions of Americans, I seriously doubt the tax payer is going to suffer all that much by providing birth control.

It's the principle of it.

Quote:

It's not about birth control itself.
It's about who's paying for it and personal responsibilities; two concepts that seem to always elude liberals.

And who should decide who is in actual need or who is taking advantage...biased charity organizations that could turn people down for any reason? Chairity is great in a lot of ways, but it would hardly serve as stable safety network. Also say you don't pay your taxes....are you willing to then take personal responsibility or rant about how men with guns(or the cops) will come to your door if you don't pay taxes and the injustice of it all?

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Sweetleaf
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19 Apr 2014, 11:48 am

Misslizard wrote:

^Bombs and aircraft carriers.I suppose if you kill them,then they can't breed.

That sounds terribly expensive to, but so long as we avoid taxes paying for contraceptives on the basis of principle I suppose that is the important thing.

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NinsMom
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19 Apr 2014, 11:53 am

jrjones9933 wrote:

I find it fascinating that people in Japan don't have many moral issues with homosexuality, but feel perfectly fine making jokes about gays in their popular culture that make lots of westerners cringe.

I wish that they'd also asked about things like murder, threats of violence, and beating family members into submission.

I think that mass starvation, a tiny percentage of the world's population owning so much of the World, including it's people, rampant preventable disease, lack of clean drinking water for millions,, exploitation & waste of the Planet, it's resources, animals, plants & people for short term gain is immoral. Human trafficking is immoral. The disenfranchisement & persecution of humans because of gender bias, race, sexual orientation, or religion or lack of it is immoral.

GGPViper
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19 Apr 2014, 12:35 pm

In 2010, the Guttmacher Institute concluded that every $1 spent on providing access to contraceptives would save taxpayers $ 3.74 because of fewer unintended pregnancies.

Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/win/cont ... s-2008.pdf (see page 3, 5 and 18 )

The high costs for taxpayers of unintended pregnancies have also been documented elsewhere.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21651708
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24581033

From the second link (Medicaid expenditure for contraceptives vs. unintended pregnancy):

So if Raptor is genuinely concerned about the well-being of John Q. Taxpayer, then I'm sure he will be a staunch proponent of any and all taxpayer contraception coverage from now on.

sonofghandi
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19 Apr 2014, 3:25 pm

Raptor wrote:

I swear, even if we gave them all a house with enough rooms for all of their illegitimate pups and two cars it wouldnt be enough.

That is some seriously dehumanizing contempt.

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Raptor
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19 Apr 2014, 8:06 pm

Misslizard wrote:

^Bombs and aircraft carriers.I suppose if you kill them,then they can't breed.

Now you're thinking!

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jrjones9933
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19 Apr 2014, 9:56 pm

GGPViper, if it doesn't help with the othering, then the partisans don't have time for it.

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