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"There is no Palestine-Israel conflict"

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thomas81
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20 Jun 2014, 3:18 pm

Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.


Uh, you missed the point entirely. Like Chris said, it shows that it was but part of a long chain in a sorry history of incidences where far from fighting Islamic extremism, the United States has worked with Al Quaeda against its own allies, where and when it suited them. That they choose to pick them as an enemy now reeks of hypocrisy. The anti western-liberal sentiment of political islamists was common knowledge even during the cold war so 9/11 shouldnt have been such a surprise. Like the saying goes, if you lie down with stray dogs expect to wake up with fleas.


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20 Jun 2014, 3:50 pm

chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.

uh they are supporting them right now


The US is currently supporting Al Qaeda? Whatever you're smoking, can I have some?



Last edited by Jono on 20 Jun 2014, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jono
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20 Jun 2014, 3:53 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.


Uh, you missed the point entirely. Like Chris said, it shows that it was but part of a long chain in a sorry history of incidences where far from fighting Islamic extremism, the United States has worked with Al Quaeda against its own allies, where and when it suited them. That they choose to pick them as an enemy now reeks of hypocrisy. The anti western-liberal sentiment of political islamists was common knowledge even during the cold war so 9/11 shouldnt have been such a surprise. Like the saying goes, if you lie down with stray dogs expect to wake up with fleas.


That sounds like utter rubbish to me. Al Qaeda is now the enemy of the US, that's why they assented Osama Bin Laden in 2011.



chris5000
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20 Jun 2014, 6:18 pm

Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.

uh they are supporting them right now


The US is currently supporting Al Qaeda? Whatever you're smoking, can I have some?

im smoking facts
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/2/obama-arming-al-qaeda/



ruveyn
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20 Jun 2014, 7:33 pm

thomas81 wrote:
An African American journalist visiting the middle east tells it how it is-

"The Palestinians have no agency- The Israelis control everything"

l


Everything but the missiles the Hamas Rocketeer loose on Israel.

ruveyn



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20 Jun 2014, 7:57 pm

chris5000 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
if your pro israel then your pro eternal war because thats what israel seems to want since they lobby for it all the time though AIPAC

also if israel is americas greatest ally then we must have some real crap allys because they have attacked the united states navy without even an apology and sold multiple us secretes to the Chinese and thats just what they have been caught doing


Israel is not the one who violates every ceasefire, who uses women and children as human shields, who tortures homosexuals, and who deliberately target civilians with missiles. Your last paragraph is an antisemittic (or antizionistic, which the modern day antisemities like to call themselves) conspiracy theory.


how is it antisemitic when it fact?


Cherry picking in this case is antisemittic. Hamas uses children as human shields all the time, you can't read about it in the European tabloids, though, since these almost always have a left-wing agenda.

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20 Jun 2014, 8:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:

So if hypothetically speaking, a developed western country like the United States was invaded by a more powerful country, Red Dawn style, rather than resist the occupied American people should just glibly accept their overlords?

You see the problem with this logic?
....


first they didnt invade the UN took them there and illegally gave them the land. that said.

if the US was invaded and we fought and lost for 50 plus years to the point were almost all the original invaders were dead and those left fighting are people who were born and all there know is leaving here. Well at that point it is time to move for peace end the bloodshed and try to create a new community. We don't need more 100 year wars, where neither side remembers why the war start just that they fight cause its all they've done and know. the Jews aren't leaving it is their home now. the Palestines launch missles then the IDF invades, the world condemns them so they withdraw. repeat. if Canada did this to the US, the marines would invade take over and occupy canada then precede to seek out all the missiles and destroy them. We wouldn't stop until the threat to our people was gone.

I imagine the UK would do the same if say Denmark sent missiles at London.

I know Israel does bad stuff too but they don't always start it. both sides won't go for peace, both sides want it all.

as for the IDF using radioactive material in their tanks lol. welcome to modern warfare. just about all nations do, for you see radioactive material is good at piercing Armour. Its also used in helicopters and planes.

I think peace will never come to the middle east unless one side genocides the other and that would only lead towards more war from the super powers invading to punish the side that commits it.



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20 Jun 2014, 9:13 pm

sly279 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:

So if hypothetically speaking, a developed western country like the United States was invaded by a more powerful country, Red Dawn style, rather than resist the occupied American people should just glibly accept their overlords?

You see the problem with this logic?
....


first they didnt invade the UN took them there and illegally gave them the land. that said.

if the US was invaded and we fought and lost for 50 plus years to the point were almost all the original invaders were dead and those left fighting are people who were born and all there know is leaving here. Well at that point it is time to move for peace end the bloodshed and try to create a new community. We don't need more 100 year wars, where neither side remembers why the war start just that they fight cause its all they've done and know. the Jews aren't leaving it is their home now. the Palestines launch missles then the IDF invades, the world condemns them so they withdraw. repeat. if Canada did this to the US, the marines would invade take over and occupy canada then precede to seek out all the missiles and destroy them. We wouldn't stop until the threat to our people was gone.

I imagine the UK would do the same if say Denmark sent missiles at London.

I know Israel does bad stuff too but they don't always start it. both sides won't go for peace, both sides want it all.

as for the IDF using radioactive material in their tanks lol. welcome to modern warfare. just about all nations do, for you see radioactive material is good at piercing Armour. Its also used in helicopters and planes.

I think peace will never come to the middle east unless one side genocides the other and that would only lead towards more war from the super powers invading to punish the side that commits it.

yet they are pretty much never fired at armor and have very long last effects on the areas they are fired in



Jono
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21 Jun 2014, 9:22 am

chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.

uh they are supporting them right now


The US is currently supporting Al Qaeda? Whatever you're smoking, can I have some?

im smoking facts
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/2/obama-arming-al-qaeda/


That article does not say that the US is deliberately supporting Al Qaeda. Yes, I've read it.



chris5000
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21 Jun 2014, 1:25 pm

Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.

uh they are supporting them right now


The US is currently supporting Al Qaeda? Whatever you're smoking, can I have some?

im smoking facts
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/2/obama-arming-al-qaeda/


That article does not say that the US is deliberately supporting Al Qaeda. Yes, I've read it.

they will never admit they are doing it openly
just like how obama wont admit he has been arming the mexican cartels via operation fast and furious



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22 Jun 2014, 6:28 am

chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
Jono wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The USA supported Al Quaeda against the the Soviet Union. They supported Al Quaeda against Colonel Gadaffi. They are supporting them against Bashir Al Assad. Their 'war on terror' reeks of BS. You can smell it a mile away.


The fact that the US supported Al Qaeda during the cold war has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. They were still responsible for 9/11, therefore they became a threat, therefore the US launched a war in Afghanistan in order to attack their base of operations. Just because the US supported them in the past, it does not mean that they can't be enemies in the present if they become a threat. 9/11 happened 3 decades after Afghanistan's war with the Soviet Union.

uh they are supporting them right now


The US is currently supporting Al Qaeda? Whatever you're smoking, can I have some?

im smoking facts
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/2/obama-arming-al-qaeda/


That article does not say that the US is deliberately supporting Al Qaeda. Yes, I've read it.

they will never admit they are doing it openly
just like how obama wont admit he has been arming the mexican cartels via operation fast and furious


Why would that be a reply to my post? This reply proves that you have never even read the article that you linked to as "proof" that the US was supporting Al Qaeda. You've just revealed your anti-american and antisemitic bias, sir. I'd like to thank you for that because you've lost.



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22 Jun 2014, 10:29 am

Kurgan wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
if your pro israel then your pro eternal war because thats what israel seems to want since they lobby for it all the time though AIPAC

also if israel is americas greatest ally then we must have some real crap allys because they have attacked the united states navy without even an apology and sold multiple us secretes to the Chinese and thats just what they have been caught doing


Israel is not the one who violates every ceasefire, who uses women and children as human shields, who tortures homosexuals, and who deliberately target civilians with missiles. Your last paragraph is an antisemittic (or antizionistic, which the modern day antisemities like to call themselves) conspiracy theory.


Though as far as Israel is concerned the palestinians and all their woman and child human shields should die and the world would be better off? If a terrorist is using civilians as a human sheild Israel doesn't give a damn what happens to said civilians for all they care they can burn(or that is the impression I get) See its not even about trying to stop terrorism it seems, its about them wanting that particular group of people gone/dead....Just doesn't look like the goal here is 'peace'. They should be going after the actual perpetrators of crap rather than heavily oppressing all the Palestinians regardless of if they indulge in terrorism or not.


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22 Jun 2014, 12:07 pm

thomas81 wrote:
An African American journalist visiting the middle east tells it how it is-

"The Palestinians have no agency- The Israelis control everything"

"Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace. I find this peculiar because during my visit, I felt no danger from Palestinians, only from Israeli soldiers. Perhaps it's because I'm accustomed to being hunted in America. There is no Palestinian-Israeli conflict; there is only oppression."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-s ... 61896.html


Perhaps if one of the Palestine "spokesmen" were to join you in a meeting in one of the local Israeli coffee shops (where hundreds have been killed and thousands crippled and injured for life by Palestinian suicide bombers), you might have something else to say?

Across the last few years you haven't seen as many suicide bombers because the Palestinians found they could sway idiots with rhetoric better than they could blowing them apart. But this doesn't erase the real fear of Palestinian suicide bombers, and other warlike plans, nor should it.

And NOW the Palestinians have joined with Hamas. Hamas, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and continues to shell, bomb, and kill or kidnap any Israeli they find. How would you feel if it was Mexicans suicide bombing "us", and sending missiles toward "us" instead of other strangers around the world? Maybe you'd get a little defensive too?

If Israel were to let their guard down, rest assured the Palestinians and their henchmen Hamas, would be swiftly playing another tune, the tune of destruction and overthrow they've played since Israel became a country and which Muslims have taken with them everywhere in the world, in all ages.

These are the people you extoll? Why?



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22 Jun 2014, 4:59 pm

ZenDen wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
An African American journalist visiting the middle east tells it how it is-

"The Palestinians have no agency- The Israelis control everything"

"Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace. I find this peculiar because during my visit, I felt no danger from Palestinians, only from Israeli soldiers. Perhaps it's because I'm accustomed to being hunted in America. There is no Palestinian-Israeli conflict; there is only oppression."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-s ... 61896.html


Perhaps if one of the Palestine "spokesmen" were to join you in a meeting in one of the local Israeli coffee shops (where hundreds have been killed and thousands crippled and injured for life by Palestinian suicide bombers), you might have something else to say?

Across the last few years you haven't seen as many suicide bombers because the Palestinians found they could sway idiots with rhetoric better than they could blowing them apart. But this doesn't erase the real fear of Palestinian suicide bombers, and other warlike plans, nor should it.

And NOW the Palestinians have joined with Hamas. Hamas, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and continues to shell, bomb, and kill or kidnap any Israeli they find. How would you feel if it was Mexicans suicide bombing "us", and sending missiles toward "us" instead of other strangers around the world? Maybe you'd get a little defensive too?

If Israel were to let their guard down, rest assured the Palestinians and their henchmen Hamas, would be swiftly playing another tune, the tune of destruction and overthrow they've played since Israel became a country and which Muslims have taken with them everywhere in the world, in all ages.

These are the people you extoll? Why?


There may not be an actual personal belief there, just parroting the typical progressive mandate of Israel hating without personal reflection on the matter.....


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22 Jun 2014, 9:28 pm

chris5000 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
thomas81 wrote:

So if hypothetically speaking, a developed western country like the United States was invaded by a more powerful country, Red Dawn style, rather than resist the occupied American people should just glibly accept their overlords?

You see the problem with this logic?
....


first they didnt invade the UN took them there and illegally gave them the land. that said.

if the US was invaded and we fought and lost for 50 plus years to the point were almost all the original invaders were dead and those left fighting are people who were born and all there know is leaving here. Well at that point it is time to move for peace end the bloodshed and try to create a new community. We don't need more 100 year wars, where neither side remembers why the war start just that they fight cause its all they've done and know. the Jews aren't leaving it is their home now. the Palestines launch missles then the IDF invades, the world condemns them so they withdraw. repeat. if Canada did this to the US, the marines would invade take over and occupy canada then precede to seek out all the missiles and destroy them. We wouldn't stop until the threat to our people was gone.

I imagine the UK would do the same if say Denmark sent missiles at London.

I know Israel does bad stuff too but they don't always start it. both sides won't go for peace, both sides want it all.

as for the IDF using radioactive material in their tanks lol. welcome to modern warfare. just about all nations do, for you see radioactive material is good at piercing Armour. Its also used in helicopters and planes.

I think peace will never come to the middle east unless one side genocides the other and that would only lead towards more war from the super powers invading to punish the side that commits it.

yet they are pretty much never fired at armor and have very long last effects on the areas they are fired in


as it has been done in every major conflict for years. most modern nations designed their military to fight ww2 style wars, where both sides have tanks, planes, etc. but they don't fight each other and instead tend to fight weaker infantry only forces/militias. they use waht they got instead of trying to redevelop for the new warfare they face.

tanks are now used to bring down buildings mostly.

war is horrible.



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24 Jun 2014, 1:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
An African American journalist visiting the middle east tells it how it is-

"The Palestinians have no agency- The Israelis control everything"

"Zionism has convinced many Jews that they are preserving themselves. The common thought is that if the "savage" Palestinians stop resisting, stop shooting rockets, stop fighting Israel's inevitable domination, there can be peace. I find this peculiar because during my visit, I felt no danger from Palestinians, only from Israeli soldiers. Perhaps it's because I'm accustomed to being hunted in America. There is no Palestinian-Israeli conflict; there is only oppression."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ferrari-s ... 61896.html


Perhaps if one of the Palestine "spokesmen" were to join you in a meeting in one of the local Israeli coffee shops (where hundreds have been killed and thousands crippled and injured for life by Palestinian suicide bombers), you might have something else to say?

Across the last few years you haven't seen as many suicide bombers because the Palestinians found they could sway idiots with rhetoric better than they could blowing them apart. But this doesn't erase the real fear of Palestinian suicide bombers, and other warlike plans, nor should it.

And NOW the Palestinians have joined with Hamas. Hamas, which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and continues to shell, bomb, and kill or kidnap any Israeli they find. How would you feel if it was Mexicans suicide bombing "us", and sending missiles toward "us" instead of other strangers around the world? Maybe you'd get a little defensive too?

If Israel were to let their guard down, rest assured the Palestinians and their henchmen Hamas, would be swiftly playing another tune, the tune of destruction and overthrow they've played since Israel became a country and which Muslims have taken with them everywhere in the world, in all ages.

These are the people you extoll? Why?


There may not be an actual personal belief there, just parroting the typical progressive mandate of Israel hating without personal reflection on the matter.....


Hi Raptor.

You would like a "belief?" :D

How's this: Squawk!! ! About a million years ago (nah....about 30 or 40) I heard a member of the Israeli government say they wanted to live in peace with the Palestinians, but promised if Israel were attacked they would repay by killing 10 of them for each Israeli killed. This seemed like a fair warning to me then, and it still does. :)

And I notice you don't contradict the points I've made, other than to complain about my style. Any "first hand" knowledge on your part to offer?