Hamas attack on Israel this night

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Of course they do, if it turns out their little lapdog had a hand to play that would be quite embarressing for them.

Oh, and as for the claim that being a avid opponent of Israel makes you anti semitic, I provided an article and counterpoints which debunked and completely repudiated this claim in this thread.

Kurgan would do well to read.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt244002.html

Last edited by thomas81 on 01 Jul 2014, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The giant concrete wall (not fence) is built on land which is Palestinian territory, even according to Israeli law. Not only that, the wall seperates families and prevents Palestinians accessing essential services (pregnant women in labour requiring hospital attention for example). You have to remember this isnt a normal international boundary. The indigenous arabs are not afforded the right to return so are effectually imprisoned in Gaza. Therein lies the root cause of the issue in expecting Gazans let alone the Hamas government to glibly acquiesce and lay down the only pitiful means of offense they have at their disposal.

The situation is an unmitigated human rights disaster and has no parallel anywhere else in the world yet does not recieve the kind of condemnation that western governments should be giving Israel on the back of no other reason than its a fellow 'neo-liberal democracy'. That is the reason it is left to the Socialist left, not anti-semitism.

Since its formation, the state of Israel has been engineered with the goal in mind of dispersing the indigenous arab Palestinians to create an artificial Jewish majority. Given that context, its ridiculous to think that Israel would give up its annexation project simply because Hamas or Fatah stopped attacking Israel.

Collective punishment of a society for the deeds of a few is a war crime.
http://stopwar.org.uk/news/gaza-bombard ... 7OImPldVNO

Thats all I have to say.

I'll let Tequila, Kurgan and co finish the thread with their usual, and sadly inevitable, bluewashing BS and ungrounded accusations that I am the spawn of Hitler.

I see this cartoon posted all the time and it perfectly describes the stupidity of the people who repost it. You do not stop hostile force with equal force. I think I learned this in about the 6th grade when I read the art of war and studied Roman history. FFS

an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

Are they going to 'stick up' for themselves or go destroy the crap out of some palestinian areas with no regard for civilian lives killing a bunch of civilians in the process in retaliation?

I know it is extremely unfair to the Palestinians. First they get their land taken away and now they are not fenced out but fenced in. What I meant to say is that if I lived in Israel and there were rocket attacks and suicide bombers, I'd want a fence too. People care about their own safety first. Or hope for peace, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards in the Middle-east. For some reason almost everyone there is unreasonable or irrational.

They should be allowed to defend themselves. Europeans don't have terrorists right next door, and neither do Americans. They should stop acting all high and mighty.

Israel uses violence as a last resort, after countless attempts at reasoning with Hamas.

Without suicide bombers, there would be no need for a wall. Letting 1,000 civilians die isn't worth it. Since you can't reason with Hamas, you need to build a wall instead.

I don't think you can reason with Hamas. You have to be irrational or batshit crazy to be an islamic fundamentalist.

so you keep attacking them reinforcing the need for extremism feeding the fire for a never ending war but thats what israel wants apparently because they fund it

That is why I think this won't be solved anytime soon. The problem is that Israel has very little to gain from negotiating a peace deal. It's fairly likely that islamic fundamentalists will keep attacking them even when a 2-state solution is put in place. This may not be ethical but it works so far. I think the Israelis have more or less realized that they will never be considered a normal country by their neighbours. Allowing those settlements indicates that they don't really want peace. I think allowing and promoting those settlements is a real dick move. There is enough empty land in Israel, but the settles seem to be the ultra religious who are trying to create a "Great Israel" or whatever because their god says so. I've said it before, but unless the people in the Middle-east become atheists (or at least secular) they will always be at odds with each other. They should do what the Europeans do: turn churches into bars and art exhibitions. Tell the clergy that they can get lost.

Israel wants a ceasefire. The problem is that Hamas has violated every ceasefire so far. Israel is not the agressor here.

*facepalm*

Did you even read what i wrote? It wouldnt make a jot of difference if the suicide bombers stopped. The annexations happened long before Hamas started, and they will continue even if Hamas was to hypothetically stop.

The Palestinian actions are happening BECAUSE of the annexations.

Thats really all the energy i have for this thread. Its pointless debating with certain individuals here.

*cough* BS *cough*

I did read what you wrote. Either explain why nobody has died from suicide bombings since 2008 (compared to 238 in 2002 alone) or accept the fact that the barrier is a necessary evil. Even before Hamas came to power, they were still responsible for most of the bombings (PLO did not officially approve of it).