Videos that may give some Westerns a pause....

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Everyone does that because the enemy of today is more important than the frenemy of tomorrow. Look at the Allies of WW2, the Cold War had essentially started during WW2. In the last phase both sides tried to rush forward to make their zone of control as big as possible. They knew a conflict was coming.

Btw, a very large part of ISIS are probably foreigners. Many non-Arabs, and many from Western countries. It's surprising there is so little criticism of the West, because Western countries have been importing hate imams for ages and allow their own people to fight abroad for their jihad crap and then just allow them back in to radicalise more people.
I heard a new word they made up for these people on the Dutch news: haatganger (hate walker or hate traveler). The usual mild insult to radicals is haatbaarden (hate beards).

In that third video with the two men dancing together, is that common there or is this a song about homosexuality? That's what most people here would think if two men danced together.

^ lol the song isn't about homosexuality.


This kind of dancing isn't sexualized, like the jewish dance and Dabkeh.

Importing?

The bad west with its values, rights and tolerance and all that.

But yes you are right we have been too tolerant of this.

The whole "west" BS, need to stop though. The world is round, there is no west. It detract from from regions taking their own responsibility for their issue.. It perpetuates this strange resentful dependence.

There has been sectarian problems in this region for 13 centuries. Yet we are blamed to stirring up sectarian tensions. But the tensions have to exist to be be stirred up.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 01 Sep 2014, 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But this highlights the problem you are westernized, educated, you come from quite unique country in the region. Part of the is it success is it is not just one predominant religion. It is still quite volatile balance as evidenced by your civil war, and you have Hezbollah. Given the players in the region your country is vulnerable.

The model of essentially unwritten power sharing by having roles for each of the faction, isn't really a timeless solution, and isn't solution that is likely to work for the larger countries.

If the US intervene:

"They just want oil! Stop being the world police! The only ones in the Middle East who violate human rights are the US and Israel."

If they do not intervene:

"The US doesn't care. Why aren't they doing anything?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Those hate imams went to the west because they would be jailed in their own countries for their speeches; now they are coming back.

And bringing radicalised followers from the west with them. I think we've been way too soft on these extremists in the west, letting them spew all manner of propaganda and not wanting to touch them for fear of being seen as politically incorrect, or seen as picking on Muslims or a minority etc. It is good to hold out the hand of friendship to minorities, but when that hand is repeatedly bitten, it is time to withdraw it and turn it into a fist.

I compare it to Nazi Germany.

Hitler was pretty open about what he wanted, but Germans largely went along with it. Most just didn't consider him that dangerous. By the time they saw how evil he was, they couldn't do anything about it.

ISIS offers the locals (who largely agree with their dogma and politics) power and progress. So, they cast their lot in with them. The west props up leaders the masses really do not want...who back ideas alien to their culture. The women who suffered oppression for generations might appreciate it, but the majority doesn't.

Likewise, Hitler gained ground with those wanting power and influence...an ability to rise up from how badly Germany was stripped down after WWI. As he was bringing Germany to a better place (at first), the populace overlooked his agenda in favor of the benefits his leadership imparted.

The "West" can't improve the lives of those in the Middle East. They reject our way of life, and the prosperity we bring only works in a free society. Left on their own, they go back to tribal infighting that costs them every benefit they may want from western culture. ISIS offers them both (or at least the appearance of it) by conquest of its enemies and looting of their corpses. By the time the locals realize ISIS is a bad idea, it will be too late to do anything about it.

http://www.aawsat.net/2014/06/article55333618

http://www.aawsat.net/2014/09/article55336107

Just a concrete example:
I know three languages, I have a master's degree in MIS with 7+ years of experience,and starting a new job even deeper in the field, and have tried to gain legal immigration into Australia but the conditions were very hard: A certain very specified of skill set and profession, proven experience in some demanded field, an overall score where everything from age, family status and education...etc there are millions of things, even through student visa, anything less than bachelor's in Australia wouldn't increase your chances (despite the huge marketing of vocational educations - after checking with the committee they add 0% change for immigration)- all in all it's long checklist with very difficult conditions, any minor condition not met would abolish all. I am also a vivid active supporter of humanitarian organization like KAFA (anti-women and child abuse) , and been active in other humanitarian and anti-violence/radicalism activities.

On the other hand a some ret*d radical or some hate imam, with little to no education and with values of Militant that go back maybe to 13th century, simply needs to crocodilly cry and get a proof he's being oppressed by his country's gov and often has a long history of hate speech, violations and aggression no better than his police gov, and gets access to the country as refugee along with his wife and kids.

That is interesting, I didn't really know much about your background/life. There is no rhyme or sense in the immigration laws in many countries. If a country is simply a member of the European Union, anyone can move to any other country in the union and live and work there (if they can find a job). This often means unskilled people move to the UK from e.g. Poland with their families to seek work. In the mean time there are lots of existing people in the UK who can't find work and those seeking menial jobs find themselves competing against immigrants. Skilled people from outside the EU have much more difficulty getting into the UK. Your skill set sounds like it would be in demand in the UK, but your chances of moving there are practically nill - unless you can claim your government is oppressing you and your life is in danger. The criteria for entry are quite obscure and appear arbitrary.

I am not criticizing their immigrations laws; they have the right to set the laws they find appropriate for their economy.

What baffles me though, is how these radicals make it into such countries, get PR and even full citizenship.

I have a neighbor living in the same bloc who's a leader of a flat-Earth islamic cult; they also have weird beliefs like for instance a woman can't lean on wall because wall is "masculine" (language wise ); his brother a scholar in the same cult has a Permanent Residence in England! I've learned about him after seeing him in the news being arrested there for being caught planning something sinister.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 03 Sep 2014, 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

A lot of it our problems are from British-born extremists and terrorists.

A lot of our problems are self inflicted or imported.

Do he really believe the Earth is flat?