Douchebags - An article everyone should read :)

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Well then I apologize if I jumped on you there, perhaps I wasn't clear enough using "they" there but every time I referred to they in that post I was referring to progressives in that context besides the end of the first paragraph where I mention poor whites. You calling a good person seems like some progress was made, I'm sure you mean well too.

Last edited by Jacoby on 07 Nov 2014, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What did you mean by "minorities nowadays lack almost any constructive cultural critique"?

You're still missing the point of the article. It's not about whites being racist. It's about one of the aspects of white privilege being that rich white guys are themselves IMMUNE to racism.

Remember when the author has his students call him names? (white racial slurs)

They say 'redneck' 'white trash' 'cracker' etc... BUT as he points out those aren't really insults to him--since he's upper class. Those are REALLY insults to poor people who HAPPEN to be white... He's an INDIVIDUAL, he's not part of some race. He's just a normal human being. Funny thing is, only white men get to be individuals, and normal human beings.

Everybody else gets a label--woman, black, Hispanic, Asian, gay, autistic, poor, whatever... because we AREN'T just plain, old, normal [white] hu[man]s.

Then he goes on to observe the way that self-important, entitled, narcissistic upper class whites behave--like as*holes or douchebags. His whole point is that, mostly, its only rich white men, and those who want to be be rich white men who act like douchebags... And, it's a criticism that actually does hurt in a way that honky or wh***y never can.

Yes and many "white people" have native ancestry. My mom qualified for free college because she is 1/8 American Indian, however, she looks mostly white. The majority of Hispanics identify as white. The far majority of Americas are Caucasian, many black people included. Also, there are white Asians too.

The guy needs to define what is white. Otherwise his name-calling makes him look like a fool, and it falls on deaf ears of the intelligent.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 07 Nov 2014, 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The statement means what it means, I feel like there are cultural reasons for the plight of poor minorities rather than just strictly white oppression. To speak more candidly, this is a big issue with the black community in the US and that's not that deny institutional racism has taken place or the role racism may of played in creating this culture but I feel some progressives who ally and represent the black community are too willing to excuse these cultural shortfalls and deflect any notion of personal responsibility in order of pursuing their own partisan agenda and prejudice. Perhaps this will be a bit hard for you to understand given the differences in the racial dynamic in our respective countries but I've lived in poor black areas and I've lived in poor Mexican areas and there is a difference in their personal value system and culture when it comes to work, education, family, etc. Not all culture is equal. You can use Asians as even starker example of the difference culture makes in this country as it relates to minority achievement, most people don't even consider Asians to be oppressed in any sense in this country at all anymore given the success of their community but it wasn't always that way.

Again not saying there is no institutional racism or denying the role racism had on shaping their culture, not saying that they all should "pull themselves up with their bootstraps" either, I am saying that I believe in equality and peoples regardless of background should be held to a certain civilized standard. I feel like some progressives excuse certain behavior because in their mind they feel you can't expect any more out of lesser people, it''s racist belief in itself even tho these people claim to want to help. Somebody beloved Bill Cosby is attacked for daring to criticize the black community, you can't say these things in this country without people trying to destroy. You can't talk candidly about racial issues in this country, all that is allowed is this narrative that whites cause all the problems for everyone.

Whites aren't a monolithic grouping like that, there is no real shared "white identity" or race. That is a relatively new invention. Some rich Jewish college professor from Berkeley obviously doesn't have the same life experiences as some poor Scotch-Irish from Appalachia, of course he doesn't feel the terms "white trash" and "redneck" to be offensive because it has no context to himself. Let us be reminded many whites in this country left their native lands to get away from persecution themselves, there was a fratricidal war fought in this country over the issue of slavery. I'm sure if this discussion really happened they could of found a slur that offended Professor Cohen pretty easily. The context of words are what give them power, it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I wouldn't think actual progressives white or otherwise would be elitist.....so that is admittedly confusing. There are elitist f*** heads in that group but kind of doubt they'd fit the definitive of a progressive.

This the problem with generalizations of any sort, we all can fall victim to it. There are progressives I like, there are some that I don't, there a lot of ideas I strongly believe in that could described as progressive. All I can say is that my statement applies to the people it applies to and no more.

That sort of makes sense, though rich white guys hardly represent white people in general, is what I am getting at. Also I am not sure I agree that only white men get to be individuals, I feel like I am an individual I have met plenty of non-white people with their own identity who are individuals, maybe not all are normal but yest it would seem there are normal people of minorities.

And I thought usually rich white males where referred to as rich white males....so how are they label free since rich, white and male are are labels? you're right I don't really get it. Also there is just the simple fact that not all rich/upper class douchebags are white, pretty sure a black person like that for example wouldn't be after being a rich 'white' man, they'd still be a rich 'black' man...now I am well aware the wealthy in this country seems to be largely white males, but its not limited to that and neither is douchebag like behavior. Seems like the article has varying points, some of which I really don't get and some that do make sense.

The thing about the brush with the law is probably true, seems like the authorities like to indulge in the nasty practice of racial profiling. However I do not think I'd have an upper hand in getting a job over someone in a racial minority. No job history, no references, and on SSI for mental health reasons, pretty sure someone of an ethnic minority that does not have those issues would be more likely to get hired for the job than me. Though with the cop thing I wonder if I looked more native american if I'd get worse treatment, I am part native but its not that apparent people typically don't know that unless I mention it, some people have asked because they thought i looked like I could be.

Also it seems the dominant group are the uber wealthy screwing everyone over regardless or race, ethnic decent or any of that....not white people in general, even if that particular group mostly consists of white guys.

I the military, I had a lot of trouble with people of color who also happened to be my subordinates in rank. Receiving a lawful order from me was somehow tantamount to racial discrimination, and putting one of them on report for insubordination and dereliction of duty (AWOL) was somehow a racist attack from me against all people of color.

It wasn't until our Executive Officer (an African-American gentleman who had graduated from the Naval Academy), lined them all up and told them in no uncertain terms how embarrassing it was both have them in under his command and to be of the same race as they that they even began to grudgingly accept the fact that there were some basic attitudes* they did not have and basic behaviors** they did not practice that held them back from promotions and awards.

"Just because a white man gives a black man a lawful order, that does not mean that he's a racist bigot. It means than he outranks you, and that he has earned the right to tell you what to do!" -- He made each person repeat this phrase to the person next to him until every person of color had said it out loud to another person of color, and with everyone else acting as witnesses.

BTW, Us "white folk" received a similar lecture from our OPS boss - another Naval Academy graduate - who told us to say, "Just because a black man gives a white man a lawful order ... (et cetera)" to the person standing next to us.

There was some grumbling after that, but no more open hostility between the races.

(*Respect for others, especially those who outranked them. Respect for rules and regulations.)

(**Be where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there, and doing what you're supposed to be doing without complaint. Stay out of trouble, keep the appearance of self and uniform within regulations, and learn as much as you can about your job.)

That's not really the comparison. How do you think you'd do versus someone in the same situation as you, no job history, no references, and on SSI for mental health reasons, but also an ethnic minority?

It's likely then they would have a harder time in a lot of places, though it then still depends on the area like there are parts of Denver that have mostly hispanic people and from what I have seen going to businesses in these areas the employees are mostly hispanic as well so seems they are hired more than white people. But that is why I specified someone of an ethnic minority without the mental issues and lack of job history I have would be more likely to get a job than me even in areas with a higher white population. But yeah I'd also say around the area I live there's quite a mix of races not really a predominant one. I don't really know how it is in the more uppitty areas that have a larger majority of white people as I don't live there or hang around those areas, but I imagine white privilege would be more obvious/apparent in areas like that than where I live as well as just general snobbery as well.

You can claim this is true, but you're mistaken. If you can point to where I've cast blame, please do so. When you give up looking and admit I haven't, your apologies are accepted.



Indisputable.



You may not be benefiting at someone else's expense and no one is suggesting you are. You simply don't face the same varieties of discrimination as people of minority ethnic groups are likely to. This benefits you whether you realize and accept it or not. This isn't blaming white people for their problems, it's just saying white people may not understand these problems because they've never personally experienced it, or never to the same extent.

Police are more likely to harass black people than white people, as a result some white people will try to explain black people's experience through the lens of their own contact with police, that police will 'have a justifiable reason' and be working to the 'public good'. This hasn't always been the experience black people have had though, and the history of police mistreating minorities in the US is as old as the history of the US itself. The black guy who's been stopped and frisked every week for the past 8 months will view his experience through the perspective of someone who's being harassed repeatedly despite no wrong doing, because that's what he's experienced.



I'm not sure that's true. Their treatment is likely to be similar to how other black teenage girls are treated, unless they're recognized. If they're recognized they're likely to be treated like rich/famous people are, unless the person who recognizes them wishes to blame them for whatever issues they have with their dad. If they're followed around that doesn't necessarily mean a racist motivation, teenagers of all races get that sort of treatment.



You can't ignore inequality if you wish to achieve a higher degree of equality. Pretending that pointing out inequality is hateful does yourself a great disservice.

This may very well be true, but I don't think focusing on it is terribly productive, it makes people very defensive, as you're seeing, and the term 'privilege' itself is both abused by and associated with groups that many people reflexively recoil from, causing people to further react poorly to the term. I think you're doing something that I've long tried to train myself out of, letting the truth get in the way of making a persuasive argument, where a more nuanced approach might see better results. That is assuming persuasive arguing is something you desire to do, I may be completely misreading you.

Also, the author of the article isn't a douchebag, he's really more of an asshole.