Why are poeple on this site so obessed with feminists?
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Is the Church of England a government body or a private organization? If the latter, it's up to them to decide (the No Homers Club rule).
It is the established church of England, thus "the Church of England". It is the state religion, and the head of state is also the head of the church. The highest ranking bishops are automatically awarded a seat in the House of Lords (sort of the senate).
That didn't answer the question.
Are its policies voted for by all the people, or is it run by those within the Church?
If it's the former, then yes, it should be equal. The latter, whatever they want.
Where I live, Oz, men and women are equal under the rule of law. Which is all you can ask of anyone unless you wish to infringe upon freedom (private gatherings being kept private; someone doesn't like it, they can start their own -- fair for all).
That didn't answer the question.
Are its policies voted for by all the people, or is it run by those within the Church?
If it's the former, then yes, it should be equal. The latter, whatever they want.
Where I live, Oz, men and women are equal under the rule of law. Which is all you can ask of anyone unless you wish to infringe upon freedom (private gatherings being kept private; someone doesn't like it, they can start their own -- fair for all).
Well, the policies of the church have to be approved by parliament, so in a sense it is run by the government.
People here are interested in discussing feminism just like they are interested in discussing religion, because many feminists are just like flat earthers or YEC's. They make unbelievably asinine claims and many people on the spectrum seem to prize the process of logic, so naturally we would want to discuss how moronic these folks are. Seriously, it's like talking to a barely literate hick who thinks that the KJV is the best translation of the bible.
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Not obsessed. I don't really care about feminism, but I've never really had a great encounter with anyone who claimed to be feminist.
I know that is probably mostly because those who run around calling themselves feminists are apparently not real feminists... those who are loudest about it anyway.
I normally don't like discussing such things because I think people on all sides argue extremely poorly, and once you find the few thought-jewels in the discussion the rest of the crap can be cleared away. Almost all philosophies and idealologies are plagued by having some of their most idiotic and ignorant followers doing most of the talking as the pioneers are cleared out of the discussion.
Also, most followers of most idealologies tend to ignorant groupies, so they tend to be whimsical and useless for serious conversations, so it is often difficult to find someone who supports an ideology and knows the ideology well enough for a worthwhile conversation. The same is true with feminism, but those loud and horrible feminists are more capable of drowning out all the others because they are controversial and controversy gathers followers.
However, feminism tends to annoy me more because of their arguing tactics, so I tend to try to avoid those discussions. Mainly is when I ask questions and try to probe to a deeper understanding of the feminist viewpoint, I am called a misogynist immediately and no answers my initial question. Any line of reasoning seems to just be cut off immediately by invalidating me as a person...
That isn't an uncommon tactic in general, but I have faced it more feminism than any other ideology (with possibly the sole exception of nationalism.)
I have found a few feminists only recently who weren't like that, but they seem so rare.
No movement or ideology is without it's dark side, but recently feminism has had it's dark side thrown out into the open.
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Feminism means so many different things to different people that it's difficult to talk. I've always considered feminism to be mainly concerned with things like closing the wage gap, women's suffrage and reproductive rights. Things that are accepted today and that most modern people agree with! So, what'a all the hatred about?
One culprit might be that there's profit to be made by bloggers who post inflammatory nonsense because those are the kinds of articles that tent to get a lot of hits. Then they attract commentary from all who want to attack them and profit from that attention. They feed off each other. The chances are that the feminist or anti feminist blogger that annoys you is just an attention monger.
Evil_Chuck
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I agree with you very much, particularly on this issue. I knew a girl on another forum who espoused exactly the kind of feminism you're describing. Her poor logic, resentfulness, passive-aggressive language, and victim complex played a large part in why I no longer post there. I just got fed up with her spoiling so many threads with knee-jerk responses, and seeing other members being reluctant to disagree with her, lest they be seen as conservative or chauvanist. Towards the end, I got so frustrated with them sitting around complaining about rights but not accomplishing anything that I donated money to the ACLU just to make a point and set a positive example.
They claimed I was just bragging. And the ACLU still won't stop sending me mail.

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I agree with you very much, particularly on this issue. I knew a girl on another forum who espoused exactly the kind of feminism you're describing. Her poor logic, resentfulness, passive-aggressive language, and victim complex played a large part in why I no longer post there. I just got fed up with her spoiling so many threads with knee-jerk responses, and seeing other members being reluctant to disagree with her, lest they be seen as conservative or chauvanist. Towards the end, I got so frustrated with them sitting around complaining about rights but not accomplishing anything that I donated money to the ACLU just to make a point and set a positive example.
They claimed I was just bragging. And the ACLU still won't stop sending me mail.

Hahahahaha, I did the same thing and when they wouldn't stop sending me mail I told my ex wife "at least I can help pay for their postage".
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Is the Church of England a government body or a private organization? If the latter, it's up to them to decide (the No Homers Club rule).
And if they decide they don't want to appoint women, then people are right to call them out on their misogyny.
I respect that people think private organisations should be allowed to discriminate and live or die on the free market, but leaving out the "and live or die on the free market" part of that makes you seem like an advocate for bigotry rather than choice. I am confident you are advocating for choice, but that's the impression one gives.
If women did not have an opposition then they would not be making 70% of what men make for the same work nor would feminists even exist as they would have no cause to. You might want to inform yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index
You will also note that most mainstream religions are quite misogynous.
Regards
DL
I think Jacoby was speaking with regard to present perspectives. The structural oppression your response pertains to is not a reflection of only present perspectives, but the perspectives which existed over the entire interval of time during which events which would precipitate said structures unfolded.
So you're kind of comparing apples and oranges, which leaves both of you feeling right and feeling that the other is wrong, when the truth is that you're both right.
I think the thing to take away from this is that, on the one hand, ceasing discrimination against women from some point-in-time T forward, doesn't in and of itself create a level playing field from T forward; and on the other hand, failing to understand the continuing-into-the-present-and-future impact of past gender inequality is not the same thing as opposing gender equality.
Men of today are the one's denying women equality and justice regardless or when the policies were put in place.
Listen to how stupid men make themselves sound to maintain their misogynous policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8tSVsvZuo
Regards
DL
False, and a common misrepresentation of statistics by feminists. (I don't accuse you of that, you probably just heard it from them.)
It's unclear if there is any pay gap for the same work, factoring out all differences in profession, experience etc. (not really). But the ~70% figure is not in any way for the same work, it's simply an average across all jobs, before factoring out any differences. If a company could save 15% on the wages by employing only women, it would vastly out-compete its competitors.
Add this to the dangers list:
- Governments, pressured by feminists, force companies to make equal the average salary of men and women, which may result in less pay for you. (And then the companies will try to hire more men, and the feminists will have more "proof" how discriminating and misogynist the companies are...)
My wife would disagree and the settlement the courts imposed was quite hansom.
Her case was one of many. Learn to google. There is a lot of good information out there from official sites.
Regards
DL
Is the Church of England a government body or a private organization? If the latter, it's up to them to decide (the No Homers Club rule).
All organizations are subject to the law of the land.
Regards
DL
Because they don't activel work to change the fundamental differences between the sexes, and always demonize these and blame them on men, as if they were the designers of biology.
By asking for traditionally male legal privileges and not wanting to take male responsibilities...comes the nagging b!tchy wife feminists stereotype.
That being said, I can admire a woman caricaturized as Rosie the riveter or a fake construction worker or power lifter. Maybe it doesn't showcase fertility but it's certainly respectable
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