Why should the government "help" people with Aspergers?

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Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm

beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the government helping those in need, since as Americans we're supposed to prize charity and kindness as much as we do individualism. I think anyone who thinks it's wrong for those in need to receive help have never really been in need.


The key word there should be need and not want out of laziness or apathy.


Again, we're talking about people with Asperger's. Many of our brethren, despite high intelligence, finding it difficult to function in everyday life. Add to that depression and anxiety that often accompanies Asperger's. So, no, we're not talking about lazy or apathetic people.


Apathy can be a symptom of depression.


That is most certainly true. But try to convince people who want to punish the needy of that fact.


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20 Mar 2015, 11:07 pm

^^^
in the words of a 19th century preacher, "there are none so tender as those who have been skinned themselves." IOW calloused folk will be calloused folk until they get skinned by life.



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20 Mar 2015, 11:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
My take is really this - we should have a more organized thrust in helping those who really want to work and have the capacity to work to find meaningful work that can keep them on their feet. I remember going with vocational rehabilitation in 2006 and for all the paperwork I ran though I finally got to a guy who works with disabled professionals and his sage advice was - now that I was through their system - paper the town with resumes and don't tell anyone I have a disability. What's utter garbage about that, aside from the obvious, is it shouldn't even need to be like that - ie. if a vocational rehabilitation agency could give metrics on someone's performance and demonstrate that they're a good worker, even bother to collect those metrics, they'd have something to give to the employers to make a sales pitch of some kind. that they fail to even do that boggles the imagination. I really have to wonder in that case, some of these organizations out there that are 'supposed' to help us, what they're doing aside from smoking, drinking coffee, and getting paid from our tax dollars.


Shoot. I was planning, with returning to work, to work first in vocational rehab to see if I can work consistently--I can sometimes work, but in the last months of working, I became unable to work consistently: even though I was a full-time 40 hour worker, I was only doing a week's worth or less of work a month, because of leaving to go home early when I found my concentration was shot, and often being late for work, because I froze up; my therapist said there is no employer that would want somebody so inconsistent--and then I was planning to do the vocational rehab thing and mention it, along with the disability, but to also emphasize my finally overcoming my disability, so they have a reason why I was out of work for so long and know they have a motivated applicant who's received recent work.


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20 Mar 2015, 11:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:
^^^
in the words of a 19th century preacher, "there are none so tender as those who have been skinned themselves." IOW calloused folk will be calloused folk until they get skinned by life.

Or maybe a more plausible possibility is that those "calloused folk" have been skinned at one time and grew a tougher hide from the experience....


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20 Mar 2015, 11:24 pm

it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.



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20 Mar 2015, 11:28 pm

auntblabby wrote:
it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.


Obviously, the preacher man was leaning toward your interpretation.


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auntblabby
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20 Mar 2015, 11:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.


Obviously, the preacher man was leaning toward your interpretation.

some people whose hearts have been broken become more hard-hearted or calloused, while others become more soft hearted and compassionate. I wonder what causes one to go one direction versus the other?



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20 Mar 2015, 11:44 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
I agree with all those who say that those who need it, should have it----"need", being the operative word, here. I also agree with Sweetleaf in what she says about those who DON'T really need it, are making it very difficult for those who DO. When I go to the Food Stamp place, the number of people with weaves, wigs, and wicked nails (Oh, my!) is STAGGERING!! How can they AFFORD all that mess, and NEED Food Stamps?? Also, I was standing in the checkout line, one time, and the woman behind me was in the military (in uniform), was on WIC (Huh?), and receiving Child Support (double huh?), from her ex!! Please tell me how she was "in need"!?!?! !


I don't have a weave or a wig but I do have nice nails and wear nice clothes, accessories, shoes and makeup. Oh, I dye my hair every 6 weeks to cover grey.

How much do you think those things cost exactly? Do you think people on food stamps are paying high end prices for that? Hardly! I buy my nails at the dollar store. I get 200 for 4 bucks and the glue is 2 and I do it myself. I buy hair dye for about 6 bucks. My makeup is all dollar store stuff. The most expensive thing I've bought is a $3 thing of 8 Wet N Wild eye shadows. I buy my clothes at a junk store in town, which is a thrift shop run by a church. I get pretty like new things, or great shape vintage things for literally $1 an item. Shoes are $1.50 a pair. Purses are $1, as are hats, and coats are $3. I spend about $20 a month there for clothes. I always find nice things. I look good. I haven't bought underwear in about 5 years though, but I'm not hard on it and it doesn't tear up.

As for the weaves you see, you can buy hair at the beauty supply store fairly cheap. $20 or $30 for enough to do a head. It's not something that people can't do at home. It takes all day but a friend can put in a weave for you. Also, the wigs you are talking about are expensive. I'm assuming you are talking about those lace front wigs that a lot of black women wear? I have a friend that has about 5 or 6 of them, but she got them as gifts on her birthday or Christmas from her family and she takes care of them. They don't buy the most expensive kind like Oprah has either, you can get knock off brands for a few hundred dollars.

Just because somebody doesn't look homeless and destitute doesn't mean they are spending a lot of money on themselves or don't need food stamps.


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21 Mar 2015, 12:06 am

beneficii wrote:
izzeme wrote:
"help", yes, just like any minority or person that needs it.
"spoon-feed", nope.

SSI is a great thing, for those that cannot work for whatever reason, or are unable to get work, even if they could hold a job.

in the netherlands (where i live), you have an obligation to find work while on SSI.
i myself was on SSI for a few months; i was 'forced' to work in the social workshop during that time, and also apply for at least 2 jobs each week, relevant to my education and ability or not (a nuclear physicist would be punished for not applying as a garbage truck driver); and the institution offers assitance in writing letters, finding vacancies and even trainings in interviews.
While the applying requirement was a bit too heavy in my opinion, being 'forced' to work and apply is a good thing, it keeps SSI costs low, and having a real job is also good for someones mental health.

of course, if you have a (diagnosed) medical condition that excludes you from doing some (any) jobs, you are excused, but aspergers is not one of those conditions.


What you're talking about sounds more like unemployment insurance than it does something like Supplemental Security Income (SSI) in the U.S. To receive payments from the former, you would need to demonstrate both a willingness and an ability to work (and you can demonstrate that by sending in so many applications a week); to receive payments from the latter, you would need to demonstrate that you cannot work at any job. If you've demonstrate you cannot work at any job, what is the point of applying for jobs, then? There is no point. That's why I believe the program you discuss is more like unemployment insurance here, than it does something like SSI.


Yeah it does seem like that program would be more simular to unemployment payments we have here rather than SSI.


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21 Mar 2015, 12:10 am

Raptor wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
^^^
in the words of a 19th century preacher, "there are none so tender as those who have been skinned themselves." IOW calloused folk will be calloused folk until they get skinned by life.

Or maybe a more plausible possibility is that those "calloused folk" have been skinned at one time and grew a tougher hide from the experience....


It is possible, but those people should remember not everyone reacts to everything the same way...and its not particularly always a lack of trying on the part of the individuals that don't grow a thicker skin from a given experience.


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21 Mar 2015, 12:11 am

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.


Obviously, the preacher man was leaning toward your interpretation.

some people whose hearts have been broken become more hard-hearted or calloused, while others become more soft hearted and compassionate. I wonder what causes one to go one direction versus the other?


You have to ask Raptor how his heart had been left calloused and broken.


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21 Mar 2015, 12:11 am

The government helps as a group senior citizens, veterans, minorities because despite many members being able to work because it is felt as a group they were screwed over or scarified for the country. Hell the government bailed out the very people that screwed over the world economy making the working world unfriendly and very specifically unfriendly to Aspies.

So why exactly should we who are in some ways more disadvantaged by the decisions society has made be altruistic and decide we deserve to be be completely on our own?


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21 Mar 2015, 12:16 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The government helps as a group senior citizens, veterans, minorities because despite many members being able to work because it is felt as a group they were screwed over or scarified for the country. Hell the government bailed out the very people that screwed over the world economy making the working world unfriendly and very specifically unfriendly to Aspies. So why exactly should we who are in some ways more disadvantaged by the decisions society has made be altruistic and decide we deserve to be be completely on our own?

because some of the members here see themselves one day in the same shoes as the high and mighty, and don't care who they have to step on to get up there, and furthermore mightily resent anybody complaining about their perfidy or in fact anybody doing anything but actually genuflect to them and their ambition and talent.



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21 Mar 2015, 12:23 am

OliveOilMom wrote:

Just because somebody doesn't look homeless and destitute doesn't mean they are spending a lot of money on themselves or don't need food stamps.


This is very true, For instance I wanted a certain video game but didn't purchase it till I was able to find a copy for half the cost...Or I might order certain electronics and such online on places like Ebay where you can find things cheaper than typical retail price. Also I am doing everything I am supposed to be as far as treatment for my conditions...but yeah especially with fixed incomes like SSI, I cannot rationalize why people feel people on it keep up some appearance of being dirt broke or else it proves they don't need it....I have become better at budgeting, I'm not going to blow all my money each month right when I get it just to satisfy people who think I ought to have nothing to prove I need SSI lol.

Also most of my clothes come from thrift stores and clearance racks or my sister who does tend to buy kind of high end clothes...so yeah I have clothes that fit, and even look good and are clean because I like to look half way presentable, but someone could assume I go out and spend a bunch of money on nice clothes that I should spend on needs....but that's not the case


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21 Mar 2015, 12:34 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.


Obviously, the preacher man was leaning toward your interpretation.

some people whose hearts have been broken become more hard-hearted or calloused, while others become more soft hearted and compassionate. I wonder what causes one to go one direction versus the other?


You have to ask Raptor how his heart had been left calloused and broken.


Thanks to this /\ I had to run and grab a damp paper towel to clean the Sprite off of my laptop. I read it just as I took a big swig and nearly drown in it when I bused out laughing (for real).
Calloused and broken heart..... :lol: :lmao: :lmao:


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21 Mar 2015, 12:47 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
it is plain that the good preacher was intending to impart the idea that compassion comes from vulnerability.


Obviously, the preacher man was leaning toward your interpretation.

some people whose hearts have been broken become more hard-hearted or calloused, while others become more soft hearted and compassionate. I wonder what causes one to go one direction versus the other?


You have to ask Raptor how his heart had been left calloused and broken.


Thanks to this /\ I had to run and grab a damp paper towel to clean the Sprite off of my laptop. I read it just as I took a big swig and nearly drown in it when I bused out laughing (for real).
Calloused and broken heart..... :lol: :lmao: :lmao:


Believe it or not, I'm happy I could make you laugh.


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