Why do lots of people think that people choose to be gay?

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So you're saying that there's nothing wrong with OliveOilMom calling the victims of "ex-gay" therapy "gullible" and saying that "if they didn't buy into ["ex-gay" therapy] they would buy into something else equally as stupid"? Can you not see how entirely bigoted and bully-like that is? Why do you seem to see nothing wrong with her name-calling, anyways?

Am I? Let me read my post again.

Nope, I said no such thing.

Likewise, OliveOilMom made no specific reference to "victims", rather she suggested that the people who fall for the lie of such therapy are gullible. I'm inclined to agree.



No. But I can almost see the mental gymnastics you're performing in order to classify it as such.



Her "name-calling" was classifying people who believe in an obvious lie as "gullible", and is therefore a legitimate opinion supported by articulated reasoning. It did not constitute a personal attack against you or anybody else.

Many victims of "ex-gay" therapy are teens who were forced into it by their religious parents. So how were those people gullible at all?

(Also, just wondering, but did you look at the Truth Wins Out website that I linked to, which has plenty of information about the victims of "ex-gay" therapy? If not, then why not? Why are you ignoring that valuable source of information?)

Plus, why is it ever okay to call people (especially those who have been emotionally harmed, like the victims of "ex-gay" therapy were) "gullible"? Seems to me like that's just plain insulting.


There are no mental gymnastics involved. The only way you could think that is if you were unable to feel compassion for the victims of "ex-gay" therapy.


So, as long as you're not insulting people on this message board, you can be as horrible as you want? Sorry, but no. I strive for higher standards than that. In my opinion, there should be no hatred at all on here. Sorry to hear that you don't agree.

You don't have any clue about what I think or how I feel. I never said I don't care about them or think it's ok. I said the whole movement is a crock of s**t. Most people know that. I said I don't see it as a huge problem that is hurting society. It's a big problem that is hurting a group of people who either buy into it or are around a bunch of people who buy into it.

I also honestly don't care whether or not you talk to me. I'm far from a bully or a bigot, but go on ahead with your knee jerk assumptions, people who can't think for themselves usually go with that. Emphasis on the jerk part inferred.

I am a mature, compassionate adult and being one rather than an immature bandwagon jumping nonthinking rhetoric spewer makes me realize and have the courage to say that the Exodus crap isn't really doing much to most gay people in the US. Most know better than to give it a second thought. Just because I don't blow everything out of proportion doesn't make me bad or a bigot. It makes me a person with common sense.

I'd love to see that s**t gone, but it won't be gone until all the fringe nutjobs find another bone to chew on. Maybe somebody will predict another rapture date and they will get caught up in that. However, because most people don't see it as real and see it as the joke it is, it's not a threat to society nor harmful to society. By society I mean the majority of people in the country, not a small handful of people who fall for it. It's very harmful to them just like a lot of the whack restrictions that many of the far right religious sects have. However, it's not harmful to society although it is to a small group.

I'm honestly not the one who needs to grow up here. You can resort to your playground stomping off not talking to me reactions if you want, and that might make a very few people cheer you on, but most will see it for what it is. A silly little fit because somebody disagrees with your use of the word "society".

You sure showed me, didn't you?

Jesus Quite Dove. Assume more why don't you? I didn't call teenagers gullible. Teenagers either believe what their parents tell them or have to put up with the crap they know is bs until they are old enough to get away. The parents are the gullible ones. If you quit looking for reasons to get your tail in a twist and ask for clarification about things you might actually be able to have a decent conversation with someone about this kind of thing.

I see what my problem was and I admit it. I assumed I was talking to someone with common sense.

My younger daughter's best friend is a biological female but a trans male. His mother is one of those types. She would have put him in something like that if she could have afforded it, but thank God she couldn't. Now that he's turned 18 he's moved in here. He knew what it would be like to come out to her and put it off as long as possible. We had lots of long talks about it before he did and I promised him then and mean it now too, that I would be his mom as long as he needed me to and his adult support person because his mom refuses to believe that he can't change who he is. Now he lives here with us where he's able to be who he is without his mother and her church friends constantly harping at him. So I'm a bit familiar with the concept of the s**t kids have to go through in those situations. Luckily he never believed his mother's nonsense, but he also had adults who supported him that he could talk to. So, before you start running off at the mouth about how somebody is this or that or the other, maybe you ought to try and find out what they mean. It keeps you from looking silly when you attack them after you completely misinterpreted what they said.

But, feel free to keep up with your tangent. I'm sure it's vaguely entertaining to some people on here, and there may not be anything good on tv at the moment, so don't feel that your words are in vain. I'm sure somebody is getting tickled by them.

Look, I'm sorry. (Honestly, I am.) I feel like s**t about how I treated you, but you have to understand that I, as an Aspie, tend to take everything personally due to the fact that I empathize with literally everyone. (I have far too much empathy for one person, and it really tends to cause me a lot of problems, as you can see.) So I felt as though it was me you were calling gullible and stupid. And, as you can imagine, that hurt quite a bit, just like any personal attack would. So I lashed out at you.

Can you honestly not understand how and why I insulted you? Like I said, I do apologize for doing so, but it's not like I was being malicious or wanting to cause you harm. I'm not a malicious person at all. It's just hard for me to manage my own emotions.

How did they become parents then? Asexuals don't produce offspring because, well, they're just not into that kind of thing.

I think the 'choice' idea came about because for much of the last 40 years it was often referred to by various people in the media as a 'lifestyle choice'. Maybe it sometimes still is, I'm not sure, but that might be one reason why.

And therefore the gullible parties in such instances, as per OliveOilMom's post, would be the parents who have authority over their teenage child.



Your question is ridiculous, loaded and irrelevant to the discussion regarding the ill manners you demonstrated towards OliveOilMom.



What other word would you choose for people who are tricked into believing in the claimed value of such therapy? Would you prefer "credulous"?



So my only choices are to either agree with you or be labelled a sociopath? Such statements are examples of de facto bigotry.



Someone who strove for "higher standards" would have the humility to recognise that they'd erred when they launched a poorly-reasoned personal attack on another human being. Referring to OliveOilMom's post as 'hateful' and claiming that someone who disagrees with you has sociopathic traits are genuine examples of the bigotry you accused her of.

I strongly suggest that you reread what was posted, without trying to cram your prejudices between the lines. Your emotionally-charged, sub-standard debating techniques are something I genuinely would like to see eliminated from PPR - but through education rather than ostracisation.

One post attacking me was more than enough. Why did you have to make this second post full of personal attacks towards me?

You know what? I'm leaving this thread. I'm tired of getting insulted over and over again. Just because I insulted one person in this thread doesn't mean that it's okay for everyone to start insulting me.

Those of you who are telling me to grow up should take a long, hard look in the mirror and examine your own behavior.

I didn't attack you, not at all. You, on the other hand called me names. Not that I care, because it's not that big a deal to be called names by a stranger on the internet, but that was not an attack. Anyway, I thought you weren't speaking to me.

It seems that you think you are free to say whatever you want to people but how dare they say anything of the same nature back to you? You even said you were wrong in the post before this one, and I accept your apology although I wasn't at all upset by what you said. However, you are taking everything way too personally and blowing everything way out of proportion. I used to do that when I was young and I had to learn not to do it. I'm a whole lot happier now that I don't do that.

There were no personal attacks there. I was talking about your way of thinking, not about you. I never said anything at all about your character, unlike what you did to me. So lets go back to where you aren't speaking to me because I'm not a "compassionate adult" shall we?

Also, you can ask anyone who has been on this forum for a while; if you get verbally attacked by me there will be no question in yours or anyone else's mind that I have done so. That was very far from any sort of personal attack. Maybe you should stop and think "Could this be about something other than me and my character, morals, and personality? Could this person possibly be saying something other than what I think they are saying? Is it even remotely possible that they mean something other than what I think they mean?" If the answer to any of those is yes, then why not try a bold new innovative approach and ask for clarification? I know that may seem far reaching and unheard of, but it just might go a long way toward a meaningful exchange and prevent a whole lot of hurt feelings on your part.

I'm just sayin....

We aren't the ones throwing fits and stomping off sweetheart. If you can't handle being disagreed with and not having everything worded in a sweet bedtime story tone, you won't ever be able to function out in the world where people aren't constantly walking on egg shells to keep from upsetting you. Nobody has insulted you, we have insulted your position and your way of coming across. Maybe you should take a look at what we said and see if you get a lot of that from people. If so then maybe you should work on your communication methods and try to learn how to deal with people effectively. Nobody has been mean, but we haven't been gentle either. Part of growing up is learning how to deal with that. I think it's something that the other poster and I have both learned to do. I didn't see anyone insult you per se, and sarcasm is very different than insults and personal attacks. Nobody dipped your pigtails in the inkwell so please stop acting like we did. It's a serious suggestion to you to learn how to deal with conversations and exchanges like this. It really will go a long way toward helping you get farther in life and deal with people.

ETA; please give me an example of my childish behavior here. I'm serious. What exactly did I do that was childish and how was it childish? If it truly was and it's not just a way of saying "Nuh uh! YOU are!" or the whole rubber glue thing.

NO

NO

NO

@ this forum

The amount of nonsense going on here is unbelievable. The PPR forum needs to go

Please, calm down folks, or we will lock this thread. It's not benefitting anyone right now. Such bickering is needless.

It's been 15 hours since anybody said anything in this thread. I think that pretty much defines "calmed down".

Well I've never felt gay or anything of that sort so I always think that people who wish to change themselves have something 'wrong' in them. But eh I'm not sure much since I hear that people really struggle being gay. I don't mind gay people but yeah I don't understand them either.