Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Atheism and autism

Page 3 of 12 [ 184 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

20 Jul 2015, 1:10 pm

sly279 wrote:
will you lash out against acts of violence in the name of atheism?
I see atheists talk about killing all religious people. a convert or die attitude. they know what the "truth" is and everyone has to follow it or they are evil and must be gotten rid of.

saying taking your kids to church like you did and your parents did is brainwashing them. well I think people should be able to raise their kids to their families lifestyle, and the kids can decide when they grow up what they want to do. plenty of religious families kids turn atheist and atheist families kids go religious. so I don't see how its any one else s business.

I think for a quite a few people atheism is their religion. you may say its not one but they act like it is. its the only way of life and all must follow it and its their job to convert people to it. so that sounds religious to me. I hate anyone like that. think what you want, believe what you want, but don't force or attack others to do so.

For the millionth time, atheists generally don't try to convert anyone. I don't. The reason we get ticked off at religion is they keep trying to legislate our behavior to align with their ideas of what it should be. If that all went away (really went away), I think most if not all that anger or whatever you want to call it would go away. As to being a religion. I borrowed the following because it says it better than what occurs to me presently.

Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism simply states that you do not believe in God.
Period.
That is all folks.
Nothing to see here.



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

20 Jul 2015, 1:28 pm

pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations. There are no groups, societies or publications for "not collecting stamps", but there are plenty for atheists and nontheists.

Then again, I guess you can also argue about whether parody organizations like the Church of the Subgenius or Discordianism could be considered "religions" in the most literal definition of the term.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

20 Jul 2015, 2:17 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
Janissy wrote:
I think it's interesting they noted "if religious, were more likely to construct their own religious belief systems". There are several posters here who have done just exactly that.


I don't know that I've constructed my own, but more like tried to go back to the original? I certainly don't seem to follow what most Christians believe, and find myself at odds with them and the radical atheists. I have people bashing from both ends and I'm trying to be in the middle thinking everyone else is crazy. It hurts to have atheists bash me as if their belief that God doesn't exist is fact, when they cannot know, and nor can I say for a fact that he does exist. That's why it's called a belief, and why it's taken on faith. We know maybe an atom of the knowledge that exists in the universe, not to mention the entirety of space. How can we claim we know the absolute truth?

I try to follow the bible, and at my church, we study it, go back to the original texts (as original as we have) and try to understand the meanings along with what was cultural significant and how it relates to us today, such as the eating of pig meat and how dangerous it is without the proper cooking techniques. We preach love and tolerance, while being strong in our own faith and holding each other accountable. We welcome everyone and don't care what people wear, as long as they're there. We don't care if homosexuals come in, we welcome everyone. We don't damn people to hell, that's not our job, but we will tell them what the bible says. After that it's between them and God. Not our job to judge, just to show people what the bible says.



i know how that feels. I don't go to church though. one its boring(adhd) two lot of them aren't so accepting of everyone. and last one i went to put a business owner in charge and he treats it like a business not a church. it was such a kind place under the old pastor.



Proteus
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 31

20 Jul 2015, 2:20 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations.


Sorry to be pedantic, but technically atheism is the result of a belief system – rationality, you might call it – and not a belief system in and of itself. The existence of organizations, propaganda and so on that label themselves atheist does not really indicate that atheism itself is a belief system on par with religion.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

20 Jul 2015, 2:25 pm

pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
will you lash out against acts of violence in the name of atheism?
I see atheists talk about killing all religious people. a convert or die attitude. they know what the "truth" is and everyone has to follow it or they are evil and must be gotten rid of.

saying taking your kids to church like you did and your parents did is brainwashing them. well I think people should be able to raise their kids to their families lifestyle, and the kids can decide when they grow up what they want to do. plenty of religious families kids turn atheist and atheist families kids go religious. so I don't see how its any one else s business.

I think for a quite a few people atheism is their religion. you may say its not one but they act like it is. its the only way of life and all must follow it and its their job to convert people to it. so that sounds religious to me. I hate anyone like that. think what you want, believe what you want, but don't force or attack others to do so.

For the millionth time, atheists generally don't try to convert anyone. I don't. The reason we get ticked off at religion is they keep trying to legislate our behavior to align with their ideas of what it should be. If that all went away (really went away), I think most if not all that anger or whatever you want to call it would go away. As to being a religion. I borrowed the following because it says it better than what occurs to me presently.

Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism simply states that you do not believe in God.
Period.
That is all folks.
Nothing to see here.


you don't' equal all atheists just like I don't equal all Christians. so you may not but most I've met do see it as their job to convert all the "stupid idiots"

but many take not believing in god as the only way to live the only truth and everyone must follow it. that sounds like a religion to me. its the same reason you don't like religious people yet its ok when your side does it o.O

most laws happening is to ban being openly religious and to prevent us from doing it places so idk what laws you're talking about that make you do as religious people want unless you live in the middle east.

look to Russia where atheism is the law and gov. or how about china.



pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

20 Jul 2015, 2:35 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations. There are no groups, societies or publications for "not collecting stamps", but there are plenty for atheists and nontheists.

Then again, I guess you can also argue about whether parody organizations like the Church of the Subgenius or Discordianism could be considered "religions" in the most literal definition of the term.

I don't belong to any atheist organizations. I would suspect they exist to push back against the conservatives attempts to constrain our freedoms to conduct our lives as we see fit within the non religious inspired laws of our country...



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

20 Jul 2015, 2:38 pm

pcuser wrote:
Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations. There are no groups, societies or publications for "not collecting stamps", but there are plenty for atheists and nontheists.

Then again, I guess you can also argue about whether parody organizations like the Church of the Subgenius or Discordianism could be considered "religions" in the most literal definition of the term.

I don't belong to any atheist organizations. I would suspect they exist to push back against the conservatives attempts to constrain our freedoms to conduct our lives as we see fit within the non religious inspired laws of our country...


and push theirs I think both sides are guilty of that. both attack each other. then people like me are caught in the cross fire. :(



pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

20 Jul 2015, 2:44 pm

sly279 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
will you lash out against acts of violence in the name of atheism?
I see atheists talk about killing all religious people. a convert or die attitude. they know what the "truth" is and everyone has to follow it or they are evil and must be gotten rid of.

saying taking your kids to church like you did and your parents did is brainwashing them. well I think people should be able to raise their kids to their families lifestyle, and the kids can decide when they grow up what they want to do. plenty of religious families kids turn atheist and atheist families kids go religious. so I don't see how its any one else s business.

I think for a quite a few people atheism is their religion. you may say its not one but they act like it is. its the only way of life and all must follow it and its their job to convert people to it. so that sounds religious to me. I hate anyone like that. think what you want, believe what you want, but don't force or attack others to do so.

For the millionth time, atheists generally don't try to convert anyone. I don't. The reason we get ticked off at religion is they keep trying to legislate our behavior to align with their ideas of what it should be. If that all went away (really went away), I think most if not all that anger or whatever you want to call it would go away. As to being a religion. I borrowed the following because it says it better than what occurs to me presently.

Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism simply states that you do not believe in God.
Period.
That is all folks.
Nothing to see here.


you don't' equal all atheists just like I don't equal all Christians. so you may not but most I've met do see it as their job to convert all the "stupid idiots"

but many take not believing in god as the only way to live the only truth and everyone must follow it. that sounds like a religion to me. its the same reason you don't like religious people yet its ok when your side does it o.O

most laws happening is to ban being openly religious and to prevent us from doing it places so idk what laws you're talking about that make you do as religious people want unless you live in the middle east.

look to Russia where atheism is the law and gov. or how about china.

Well, let's consider abortion laws, laws explicitly allowing outright discrimination against gays, anti gay marriage laws, laws to teach creationism in public schools, etc. One could go on all day with examples. The reason we need laws against religion in the public square is because religious people insist on violating the Constitution by putting religion in the public square. Stop doing this crap and it would all go away...



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

20 Jul 2015, 2:51 pm

pcuser wrote:
I don't belong to any atheist organizations. I would suspect they exist to push back against the conservatives attempts to constrain our freedoms to conduct our lives as we see fit within the non religious inspired laws of our country...


While some are distinctly anti-religious, most are generally just humanist and scientific organizations.



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

20 Jul 2015, 3:02 pm

Atheism is as much a "systematic belief system" as not collecting stamps is a systematic way to collect stamps.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

20 Jul 2015, 3:10 pm

Proteus wrote:
Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations.


Sorry to be pedantic, but technically atheism is the result of a belief system – rationality, you might call it – and not a belief system in and of itself. The existence of organizations, propaganda and so on that label themselves atheist does not really indicate that atheism itself is a belief system on par with religion.


Yes :!: :!: :!: . After all, how much of a system can there be around the single statement "I don't believe in God". That's all there is to it. Various backing arguments don't constitute a system. But the process of looking for rational explanations for natural phenomena is a system.



Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1027
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

20 Jul 2015, 4:23 pm

Here we have a problem with semantics & definitions.

Just like arguments about « g/God » are pointless due to the fact that nobody can come up with an objective-definition for said g/God, due to the fact that there are various types & varying degrees & definitions & meanings behind what one might call g/God (kind of like Muslims & Pagans & Wiccans & Christians getting into arguments that their g/God/Allah is the real one [when in truthful-reality the g/God{s} that they worship is actually Satan/Shiva/Shetani/Baal/etc]), the fact is that there are also different types of atheisms.

When it comes to materialist-oriented atheism, then yes, that is somewhat of a systematic belief-system (the belief that X does nor or cannot exist). When it comes to a simple rejection of what are purported to be scriptures or holy-books or the idea of some man in the sky, then that is not necessarily systematic, but simply a form of doubt or what some might call skepticism. Not all atheism is the same, not all atheists are materialists, but all materialists are atheists. Some definitions of atheism include a lack of a belief or more accurately a disbelief in what many call g/God, but personally, I have been through various stages of atheism myself (four-times atheist here), and can tell you that I've had paradigm-structures within my life where g/God was rejected whilst spirits were valid or that there is an after-life but no actual g/God, and there have even been other paradigms that I have experienced where you regard the so-called answers to prayers as being phenomenon that people mistake as having come from some external-source, like that of some g/God, when it was really due to their own inner-energy that they do not recognise nor fully know how to control.

Currently, I dislike any kinds of belief-systems or rigid mental-structures, and therefore I simply operate on a somewhat data-mining or information-gathering system instead, one where I simply add the knowledge from everyone's beliefs into my what I call my paradigm-grid, and if each religion & belief-system represented a tree, then I simply gather lots of trees into my forest, and I do not subscribe to any particular tree as the forest itself has shown me that just about everybody & everything may have some validity but ultimately I see everyone's trees as being full of half-truths or partial-truths and half-facts or partial-facts. What else... anyway... I guess that makes me more agnostic than atheist. Your logical-faculties are forced to become « fuzzy » when you see so many issues with « context » and « semantics » where one particular tree's definitions are fundamentally incompatible with another tree's definitions to the point where those two trees simply cannot have any meaningful discussion due to complete disagreements on definitions.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

20 Jul 2015, 4:30 pm

Janissy wrote:
Proteus wrote:
Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Atheism is a religion like not-collecting stamps is a hobby.


Atheism isn't a religion, but it's still a systematic belief system begetting movements, activism and organizations.


Sorry to be pedantic, but technically atheism is the result of a belief system – rationality, you might call it – and not a belief system in and of itself. The existence of organizations, propaganda and so on that label themselves atheist does not really indicate that atheism itself is a belief system on par with religion.


Yes :!: :!: :!: . After all, how much of a system can there be around the single statement "I don't believe in God". That's all there is to it. Various backing arguments don't constitute a system. But the process of looking for rational explanations for natural phenomena is a system.


The latter often ties in quite directly with the former, though. It's one thing to say "I don't believe in God" (or rather, "I believe there is no God"), it's another to say "Here is why I don't believe in God". Like, someone can believe in the concept of a God without belonging to or practicing any organized religion, but that doesn't negate that their personal belief can still be intrinsically part of a belief system or theory.



nurseangela
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,017
Location: Kansas

20 Jul 2015, 4:34 pm

Wolfram87 wrote:
Agnostic or atheist is not an either-or situation. It is possible not to believe while still aknowledging that you do not know. Hence, agnostic atheist.


I really appreciate Aspies for their intelligence - and I mean that. However, I'm finding answers like this one make me just shut down and it honestly gives me a headache (an actual headache because I can't process this line of thinking). I don't understand if this is an Aspie behavior to nit pick someone else's comment to extremes even if what is said is true. This is a sure way to end what would have been a good conversation to discuss. I'm not just meaning with this thread, either. I have found similar posts in other threads and I just can't carry on with answering after that.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


Fugu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,074
Location: Dallas

20 Jul 2015, 4:51 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Agnostic or atheist is not an either-or situation. It is possible not to believe while still aknowledging that you do not know. Hence, agnostic atheist.


I really appreciate Aspies for their intelligence - and I mean that. However, I'm finding answers like this one make me just shut down and it honestly gives me a headache (an actual headache because I can't process this line of thinking). I don't understand if this is an Aspie behavior to nit pick someone else's comment to extremes even if what is said is true. This is a sure way to end what would have been a good conversation to discuss. I'm not just meaning with this thread, either. I have found similar posts in other threads and I just can't carry on with answering after that.
Here's a venn diagram that shows the difference between gnosticism and theism.
Image



nurseangela
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,017
Location: Kansas

20 Jul 2015, 4:57 pm

Fugu wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Agnostic or atheist is not an either-or situation. It is possible not to believe while still aknowledging that you do not know. Hence, agnostic atheist.


I really appreciate Aspies for their intelligence - and I mean that. However, I'm finding answers like this one make me just shut down and it honestly gives me a headache (an actual headache because I can't process this line of thinking). I don't understand if this is an Aspie behavior to nit pick someone else's comment to extremes even if what is said is true. This is a sure way to end what would have been a good conversation to discuss. I'm not just meaning with this thread, either. I have found similar posts in other threads and I just can't carry on with answering after that.
Here's a venn diagram that shows the difference between gnosticism and theism.
Image


Oh. Thanks Fugu. I am a visual person too. That helped a lot. :D


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.