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Raptor
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25 Oct 2015, 11:55 pm

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Sweetleaf
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26 Oct 2015, 3:03 pm

wowiexist wrote:
I feel like the reason people have a negative opinion of police is not because police sometimes do bad things. People of all professions sometimes do bad things. The problem is that so many times police do bad things and get away with it. The reason that happens is that in many jurisdictions the police aren't really accountable to anyone other than themselves. If a police officer is suspected to have used excessive force but there is nobody set up to investigate it other than the police themselves, and of course they decide they did nothing wrong, people are of course not going to believe that. Usually what happens is the city pays out a settlement to the victim and the officer is not disciplined really at all.

^this


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0_equals_true
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26 Oct 2015, 4:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I feel like the reason people have a negative opinion of police is not because police sometimes do bad things. People of all professions sometimes do bad things. The problem is that so many times police do bad things and get away with it. The reason that happens is that in many jurisdictions the police aren't really accountable to anyone other than themselves. If a police officer is suspected to have used excessive force but there is nobody set up to investigate it other than the police themselves, and of course they decide they did nothing wrong, people are of course not going to believe that. Usually what happens is the city pays out a settlement to the victim and the officer is not disciplined really at all.

^this

This is precisely why I cited Peelian principles.

I also pointed out that popular ideas of justice in the public's eye is often part of the problem.



Jacoby
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26 Oct 2015, 6:24 pm

Police are more accountable to other police for breaking the code of silence for the criminals in their ranks, it can quite literally get you killed as mentioned previously. The was a lady named Bambi Bembenek was a lady who was a cop from my hometown some decades back who was a cop that got fired and exposed some embarrassing misdeeds who ended probably being framed for murder, she escaped from prison and I believe became pretty well known in the 80s. It's basically a gang, one with a license to kill. One big turf war.



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26 Nov 2015, 3:34 am

I had a minor fender bender the other day :-( , I had a major crying meltdown...the police were incredibly nice and gentle with me. As I sat on the street curb sobbing (the lady was very rude to me while I tried to talk to her, which got me to a major meltdown), one of the police officers came to me and asked if I was ok...I told him I was "a bit autistic", as I could see they were confused by my reaction, but was worried about what their reaction to autistic or autism would be (based on the media BS). They were amazing. They sat there with me, let me call my brother, told me not to worry, didn't push me or make me hurry up, literally each of them came to try and calm me down without being judgemental or yelling or being rude or telling me to stop or get over it, but just listening and asked what they could do. I am forever grateful and honestly after all I hear about police, a bit shocked that they were so incredibly sweet and human...heck, they were nicer than many in my own family when I cry...go figure. So yes, although I have never really had an issue with a police officer before, that day was a particularly tough day and they truly went above and beyond.



superpentil
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26 Nov 2015, 4:14 am

Let's not be hasty here, as far as I know none of us are the police. Don't confuse this with me backing up the police becuase I personally detest the police and the idea of policing. I've had a couple incidents where I did absolutely nothing wrong, everything was a power play done by a teacher who did not agree with my ideology and grew tired of me hijacking his class to argue with his perceived "truths". The whole justice system is a complete joke. Despite all this I both feel bad and hate the police.

I feel bad becuase every single major news outlet (who shouldn't be considered reliable information sources anyway becuase everything they spew is blown way out of proportion depending on their ideology) paints them terribly. Nobody wants to be a cop anymore, those forces are shrinking, just in general if you plan to be a cop, you're going down an even rougher road than it was. I've had a couple tangles with the police, in all circumstances they acted pretty nice. I was never sure though if that's how they are or if that's some kind of stupid mind games so I'd just be quite if they asked questions and waited for my parents. It's not to say that every cop is a bad cop, but you should be wary of them.

That said, their whole process is screwed up. It's terribly slow, they cannot seem to ever change or realize things going on in front of them. It seems like their whole answer to "neutralizing problems" is arresting every single person around and scaring everybody. The thought occurred to me the other day that if a person knew what they were doing, they could easily mess up the police. The police tend to rely on the average person not knowing how to fight, not being armed, just in general being a "lower level" than them. Anything just barely above their "level" and I'm willing to bet they couldn't handle crap. They are indeed corrupt (ever heard of the Blue Wall of Silence?) but for the most part it is the same kind of corruption you'd expect from a group of humans that can get "friendly" with each other since their job is mutual. Seemingly the only reason why they get so much crap is becuase "they're the police, they should be like this and this and this..." which is some kind of misapplied idealism. They're the cops, and the cops are just slightly trained people in a uniform. I don't know why people forget this. They're bound to screw up. This is one of those topics where a lot of thoughts are perspective based.

I do have a question about that earlier post "tons of study's saying moral decline isn't real" or something. I want to know how they're computing that becuase I've seen a lot of things that 10 years ago would totally be a no-no and now are considered fine; and moral decline is another perspective thing. If it's just based on arrest rates then I wouldn't use that as a reliable source becuase of the social weight it carries. I mean, a century ago it was illegal to be a homosexual and now it's considered unthinkable and messed up to arrest someone for that, and you've got plenty of people who say that's a good thing, and plenty of people who say that's a bad thing, and nobody can agree on who's right.

Back to the original topic, all in all, I don't trust the police for s***t. I don't trust anyone.


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MDD123
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26 Nov 2015, 9:08 am

Assaulting a police officer is a more serious crime than assaulting a regular citizen. Punching a cop is worse than punching a baby. Even swearing at a cop has been grounds for arrest/punishment. I'd be accused of being thin-skinned if I complained about disrespectful attitudes, but cops actually try to formally charge people for this. As a society, we're handling cops with "kid gloves"

When I worked fast-food in TX, we had uniformed officers come in and eat for free. The last time they tried doing it, they asked the wrong manager and drove away without anything. The fact that someone would ask for free service because of their profession is embarrassing.


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lunarious87
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26 Nov 2015, 10:19 am

MDD123 wrote:
Assaulting a police officer is a more serious crime than assaulting a regular citizen. Punching a cop is worse than punching a baby. Even swearing at a cop has been grounds for arrest/punishment. I'd be accused of being thin-skinned if I complained about disrespectful attitudes, but cops actually try to formally charge people for this. As a society, we're handling cops with "kid gloves"

When I worked fast-food in TX, we had uniformed officers come in and eat for free. The last time they tried doing it, they asked the wrong manager and drove away without anything. The fact that someone would ask for free service because of their profession is embarrassing.

Although government officials demand respect, for making order. They are treated like everyone else. Once there was a Jew who accused Imam Ali for stealing his armour. Imam Ali said let the judge decide this, the court which he had established. He could have imposed his will on the Jew because of his position but didnt. I believe the punishment for crimes should be hard, but when that is said, court should be perfect in justice as good is tangible and it is a matter of mastery. Imam Ali says if court and the law enforcement is corrupt, the government and everyone are corrupt. I dont respect police more than they deserve, but they have a certain appeal. And I love them.



MDD123
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26 Nov 2015, 10:45 am

lunarious87 wrote:
Although government officials demand respect, for making order. They are treated like everyone else. Once there was a Jew who accused Imam Ali for stealing his armour. Imam Ali said let the judge decide this, the court which he had established. He could have imposed his will on the Jew because of his position but didnt. I believe the punishment for crimes should be hard, but when that is said, court should be perfect in justice as good is tangible and it is a matter of mastery. Imam Ali says if court and the law enforcement is corrupt, the government and everyone are corrupt. I dont respect police more than they deserve, but they have a certain appeal. And I love them.


I don't see what the armor story has to do with this. I'm talking about my experiences and observations of police and I'm aware of a status quo where they have preferential treatment and ask for more. This is unprofessional, if I asked for a free meal in my technician's uniform, I would make my entire workplace look bad, nobody likes a prima donna. Even if assaulting a cop was on equal ground with assaulting a civilian, and courts threw out obscenity charges for swearing at cops, the fact that a hired professional stoops to such petty levels is appalling.


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ZenDen
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26 Nov 2015, 12:47 pm

I'd repeat my earlier post....but what for?

Some have said the people who really want to help people become paramedics, doctors, etc. and while this has the "ring of truth" it is unfair to cops.

I say this to remind everyone police only need to have a high school education and a little training before they're issued a badge and gun and given authority over you. And they take this authority seriously enough that disobeying this poorly trained, under educated civil servant could get you killed.

The police run an exclusive club and you're not invited. And the police seem to view anyone not involved in law enforcement as a lower class. Watch what happens if a cop gets hurt and how they are treated and compare this to how they let innocent people bleed out without lifting a finger. That's real disdain folks. From the police point of view, if you're not one of them you're a civilian and a person who may be or could become a criminal and are treated in this manner, rather than the tax paying citizen who pays their wages, which gives them an investigatory stance which allows them to legally lie to you, perhaps to uncover "evidence." They're really pigs you see.

Not to pick on only Chicago cops, but way back in the olden days of the '60s I remember seeing these "law officers" with their clubs, smash out the faces and teeth of innocent girls and boys because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Reminds me of the way Jews were handled during WWII, complete with Nazi war dogs. They're all the same.



lunarious87
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26 Nov 2015, 3:05 pm

Thanks ZenDen. You are much more eloquent than I. Dalai Lama says wisdom doesnt talk. You knew that probably.



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28 Nov 2015, 6:05 pm

Araial wrote:
There is a lot of anti-police sentiment in America lately, and police officers are getting killed left and right.

I know that some police officers did unthinkable things to other people, and I understand if people hate those officers (even though I don't SUPPORT hatred). But I know that the vast majority of police officers are normal, good people who just want to go home to their families at the end of the day.

What are your thoughts about this new wave of anti-police mess?

The idea that police are getting killed left and right is utter nonsense. The death rate of police on the job doesn't even crack the top 10 job categories. And some who die are killed in accidents on the job. The reason it seems like they are is because it always makes the news when one is killed...



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28 Nov 2015, 6:11 pm

I won't feel bad for them until the 'good cops' start speaking out when a cop does something they aren't supposed to do. They all stick together. Think of it as an accessory after the fact...



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28 Nov 2015, 6:25 pm

I noticed today in the news reports of Colorado Springs that we are no longer citizens, we are "civilians". Actually, I've been watching the shift since the post 9/11 build up to invade Iraq and take down Hussein. Believe it or not, youngsters, the local police of the 80's and 90's were not paramilitary. They didn't call people civilians, they didn't tend to shoot much and the only ones who wore flak jackets were the S.W.A.T. teams we'd see on television shows (and very rarely on the news).

In the last 15+/- years we've shifted to supplying police departments with military grade warzone hardware and the training to use it. You know that saying about if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? It applies. But then we as a nation found ourselves with a surplus of war veterans and few jobs. So our lawmakers gave them a bump to the head of the line for police jobs, as it was assumed they already had the training to take people down. Because that's all policing is, right? I mean it wasn't a war in the MidEast, it was a, "police action". Too bad we didn't budget for or provide transition help, therapy or any other reintegration tools for those men and women so they could learn that not every "civilian" is a threat simply by existing, or looking different.

And then there is the racism that has infected police culture, but that's a whole 'nother topic all on its own.

Rarely are officers taught any longer to talk someone down or to simply slow down. Even more rarely are they now taught to identify people with mental illnesses, developmental issues or other atypical conditions or behaviors.

That should scare anyone who reads Wrong Planet.


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