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What is microaggression?

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0_equals_true
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24 Feb 2016, 3:54 pm

androbot01 wrote:
There is for sure the possibility of abuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


What does exist mean?

It is a model of behaviour. I just don't think it is a very useful or nuanced one.

You could say that micro-aggression is just the lower end of aggression, you would have to have some kind of physical marker of it to measure of it. The problem is there are few unique markers.

We all feel a level of aggression all the time as a metric, even if it is negligible the question is if that is really the significant fact is the behaviour.

We can be aggressive due to fear, therefore the significant factor is fear not aggression.

We can be aggressive due to testosterone and so on.



androbot01
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24 Feb 2016, 3:59 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
There is for sure the possibility of abuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


What does exist mean?

It is a model of behaviour. I just don't think it is a very useful or nuanced one.
...

I think the only way to measure it is based on quantity of shared experiences. Not a great way to measure things.



0_equals_true
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24 Feb 2016, 4:18 pm

androbot01 wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
There is for sure the possibility of abuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


What does exist mean?

It is a model of behaviour. I just don't think it is a very useful or nuanced one.
...

I think the only way to measure it is based on quantity of shared experiences. Not a great way to measure things.


The purpose of having model of behavior is to address the problems that are occurring because of them and come up with solutions.

We need to be able to identify:
1. The problem that is happening, if it is happening.
2. The applicable model and how it manifests.
3. Try and measure to find a causal relationship.
4. Then use that information to find possible solutions.

I just don't think that micro aggression is a useful descriptor or model. It is too vague.

Also people just pointing out what they happen to think is micro aggression isn't doing anything other than encouraging a behavior of subjectively labeling micro-aggression.

These term become buzzwords then people manipulate them for their own ends.



androbot01
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24 Feb 2016, 4:41 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
...Also people just pointing out what they happen to think is micro aggression isn't doing anything other than encouraging a behavior of subjectively labeling micro-aggression.

These term become buzzwords then people manipulate them for their own ends.

I disagree. If something is buzzing there are usually bees. Ignoring a group sentiment only leaves it to fester and grow.
If enough people gather around an issue then there is something that needs to be addressed. Even if you don't understand it.



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24 Feb 2016, 5:06 pm

Image



0_equals_true
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24 Feb 2016, 5:06 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I disagree. If something is buzzing there are usually bees. Ignoring a group sentiment only leaves it to fester and grow.
If enough people gather around an issue then there is something that needs to be addressed. Even if you don't understand it.


We are not disagreeing about the problem. Subtle forms of discrimination or misconceptions.

Are you basically saying having these terms helps draw attention to it. I understand that, but they can also be a red herring.

There are already some some ways of dealing with misconceptions.



androbot01
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24 Feb 2016, 5:16 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
We are not disagreeing about the problem. Subtle forms of discrimination or misconceptions.

Are you basically saying having these terms helps draw attention to it. I understand that, but they can also be a red herring.

There are already some some ways of dealing with misconceptions.

I don't think there's any harm in the terminology. It's just a new way of expressing something. There will always be people who latch on to a cause, like groupies. But to latch on to something means there is something there in the first place.



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24 Feb 2016, 5:46 pm

I don't like Bill Mahr, but his response to micro aggression was "Why not just get micro-upset then?"


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24 Feb 2016, 6:49 pm



Just another way to shut down "wrong-think", one of the myriad ways these people try to do this. Don't let it have any influence on you.



androbot01
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24 Feb 2016, 7:25 pm

Drake wrote:
Just another way to shut down "wrong-think", one of the myriad ways these people try to do this. Don't let it have any influence on you.

What is "wrong-think?". I don't think it's wrong to be sensitive to the effect you have on others.



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24 Feb 2016, 7:35 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Drake wrote:
Just another way to shut down "wrong-think", one of the myriad ways these people try to do this. Don't let it have any influence on you.

What is "wrong-think?". I don't think it's wrong to be sensitive to the effect you have on others.

And it is that very sensitivity that these people look to take advantage of. By trying to make you think you did something wrong in order to control you. " Wrong-think" being the kind of things they want you to think are wrong. The video is a good illustration of such things.



androbot01
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24 Feb 2016, 7:41 pm

Drake wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Drake wrote:
Just another way to shut down "wrong-think", one of the myriad ways these people try to do this. Don't let it have any influence on you.

What is "wrong-think?". I don't think it's wrong to be sensitive to the effect you have on others.

And it is that very sensitivity that these people look to take advantage of. By trying to make you think you did something wrong in order to control you. " Wrong-think" being the kind of things they want you to think are wrong. The video is a good illustration of such things.

I can't watch the video right now. It crashes the browser on my phone.
But it seems that there are two sides to this. That microaggression exists and that the concept is abused by some for a desired benefit. Both things are true.



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24 Feb 2016, 7:53 pm

Darmok wrote:
"Microaggression" is an idea recently invented by the radical Left to try to gain political advantage -- and as a raw political strategy it really is brilliant. It allows you to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is a threat and so should be banned, censored, silenced, or condemned.

I'll illustrate how it works: I'm an atheist, and I don't like that you mentioned "hell" and a Christian newspaper in your message. Your message makes me uncomfortable. It is "hate speech" directed at me and is a threat to my beliefs, so I demand that WrongPlanet ban you from this message board for harassing me.

Yeah, that's about how I see it.
Goes hand in hand with manufactured offense.


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24 Feb 2016, 8:09 pm

People have a way of dismissing good ideas and arguments if they believe the person giving them is a bad person. So if you can expand what people think makes a person a bad person to cover your opponents and brand those opponents as racists, sexists and such...

Don't let others do your thinking for you. Decide for yourself if someone is a bad person.



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24 Feb 2016, 8:48 pm

Oi vey. I can see some clear binary views of racism here. It's like people, especially white people, think that either you are a hardcore racist, member of the KKK, Neo-Nazi, etc., and therefore a bad person, or you are completely non-racist, without a racist attitude at all, and therefore a good person. This kind of black and white thinking makes it hard for white people to acknowledge their unconscious biases and does nothing but shut conversations down.

Racism is more like a spectrum in reality, and virtually all of us have some racist tendencies (with perhaps the exception of people with Williams's syndrome). The question is not, Do we have those tendencies? Rather, it is, "What do we do about them?"


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25 Feb 2016, 5:36 am

beneficii wrote:
Oi vey. I can see some clear binary views of racism here. It's like people, especially white people, think that either you are a hardcore racist, member of the KKK, Neo-Nazi, etc., and therefore a bad person, or you are completely non-racist, without a racist attitude at all, and therefore a good person. This kind of black and white thinking makes it hard for white people to acknowledge their unconscious biases and does nothing but shut conversations down.


For the purposes of my response, I'll be using the OED definition for racism, which I consider to be more than adequate.

It's in two parts, so I'll address them separately:

OED wrote:
A belief that one’s own racial or ethnic group is superior, or that other such groups represent a threat to one's cultural identity, racial integrity, or economic well-being;


By definition, claiming micro-aggressions against yourself on the basis of race is itself racist. By extension, claiming micro-aggressions on behalf of another on the basis of race is also racist.

Quote:
(also) a belief that the members of different racial or ethnic groups possess specific characteristics, abilities, or qualities, which can be compared and evaluated. Hence: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against people of other racial or ethnic groups (or, more widely, of other nationalities), esp. based on such beliefs.


N.B. this second definition contains a qualifier which specifically excludes superficial characteristics (such as aesthetics). It is not racist to notice that someone has darker skin than yourself, it is racist to believe yourself superior based purely on this basis.

Quote:
Racism is more like a spectrum in reality, and virtually all of us have some racist tendencies (with perhaps the exception of people with Williams's syndrome). The question is not, Do we have those tendencies? Rather, it is, "What do we do about them?"


Racism falls under the realm of 'beliefs'. What makes you believe that you have any jurisdiction over the beliefs of other human beings? I'm resigned to the fact that I live in a world that contains racists, just as I'm resigned to the fact that I live in a world that contains people who mistakenly believe that I too am a racist. Is the fact that I consider myself to be superior to both groups (at least as far as this specific subject is concerned) 'racistist'?

My proposal is that we don't waste time, energy and brain-space on nebulous blanket-terms that seem at least partially designed to denigrate all white people. The SJW application of "micro-aggression" on the basis of race is intrinsically racist.