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DentArthurDent
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14 Jun 2016, 4:52 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:


Ok 21 seconds in and we have the statement "he discovers the FACT that UFO's are invisible"there is so much wrong with this that it may take me a while to fully process :?


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Barchan
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14 Jun 2016, 3:01 pm

Believe in them? I've seen them.



SilverProteus
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14 Jun 2016, 3:21 pm

No.


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friedmacguffins
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14 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

There are materialistic explanations for what are called spirits, and probably material proof of such.

Whether they are worthy of religious sentiments is a matter of opinion.



Campin_Cat
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18 Jun 2016, 2:22 pm

Do you believe in spirits?

If you mean "ghosts", then, yes. I couldn't decide if I believed in them, or not, until I saw my long-dead, adopted grandmother ironing in the basement.

Also, my adopted aunt and her father saw the same ghost, at the same time.

It would be difficult for me NOT to believe.







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DentArthurDent
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19 Jun 2016, 5:37 am

Oh Didums, Fnord calls out all your completely unsubstantiated claims and you start crying to mummy. Sorry but I like that fnord calls you guys out. Whats the problem can you not cope with a bit of rationality and the request that you provide tangible evidence for the beliefs that you attempt to propagate. Just making s**t up because it seems to fit with your idea of how things should be, went out with Frances Bacon and Isaac Newton, the s**t really hit the fan with Max Planck, Niels Bohr, Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenberg etc. The world is far more amazing, astounding and mind blowing than the most fantastical unfounded spiritual nonsense whether induced by lucid thinkers or the wild imaginations brought on by psychotic episodes.


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Ban-Dodger
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19 Jun 2016, 6:22 am

Everything exists. Yes, everything, and even if it doesn't exist, it can still manifest into existence... ;o
Some things may only manifest briefly, like said apparitions, whilst others manifest perpetually, like intolerance. =o

DentArthurDent wrote:
<insert an ironically psychotic episode here...>


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techstepgenr8tion
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19 Jun 2016, 7:56 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Whats the problem can you not cope with a bit of rationality and the request that you provide tangible evidence for the beliefs that you attempt to propagate. Just making s**t up because it seems to fit with your idea of how things should be, went out with Frances Bacon and Isaac Newton, the s**t really hit the fan with Max Planck

If I understand this correctly the assertions seems to be:
1) No one who disagrees with reductive materialism is experiencing what they say they are.
2) Anyone who disagrees with the materialist assertion should have any conversations between them, on forums, disrupted as a matter of principle.

This is all good to know going forward.


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LittleLu
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19 Jun 2016, 10:33 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Everything exists. Yes, everything, and even if it doesn't exist, it can still manifest into existence... ;o
Some things may only manifest briefly, like said apparitions, whilst others manifest perpetually, like intolerance. =o

DentArthurDent wrote:
<insert an ironically psychotic episode here...>

Something I came to realize over my time as a spiritualist: If you can think it, it can happen. And yes, I have personal experience with this.


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21 Jun 2016, 8:19 am

No. Yet, prove it, then why not. That said, I already have trouble believing in spirits in people with a physical body.


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AspE
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21 Jun 2016, 8:54 am

Kitty4670 wrote:
Do you believe in spirits?

Of course not. Show me the evidence.



Jacoby
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21 Jun 2016, 9:58 am

I can spook myself if I think about it too much but generally no, not really at all at least as popular perception goes. I think the idea of ghosts to be pretty silly, dead people floating around watching you is something a schizophrenic would think. I can't pretend to understand the universe, there is a lot we don't and can't understand.



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21 Jun 2016, 12:09 pm

Danae wrote:
No. Yet, prove it, then why not. That said, I already have trouble believing in spirits in people with a physical body.


Agnostic discussion on these beings assumes that they do have a material body, but usually made of a finer substance.



AspE
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21 Jun 2016, 1:26 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Danae wrote:
No. Yet, prove it, then why not. That said, I already have trouble believing in spirits in people with a physical body.


Agnostic discussion on these beings assumes that they do have a material body, but usually made of a finer substance.

Why assume something with no evidence to support it?



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21 Jun 2016, 2:39 pm

...because some evidence comes from personal-experience that cannot be replicated for you.
For example, shortly after someone's step-father died, I and some other people had moved into this apartment as room-mates. Whilst we stayed at that location, not only were my Electric-Bills excessively high (the electric-company gave the excuse that they had to charge such an amount because they were trying to recover lost money from that Enron-Scandal), a commonality of Poltergeist-Activity, but we also had objects occasionally teleported, a clock that moved on its own, and even a particular piece of furniture in my room being knocked over on several different days, and no I will not accept "debunker" explanations for them for the following reasons...

Example 1: Your mind is playing tricks on you.
No it wasn't, unless of course, you consider three people witnessing the same damn phenomenon as being some sort of mind-hallucination. Absolutely zero drugs were involved, and so to claim this as some sort of mass-hallucination falls into the same category as coming up with exaggerated claims, and a complete violation of Occam's Razor when the simplest explanation is to refer to our experiences for what we had all witnessed, and that would be to call it Poltergeist-Activity.

Example 2: The manager snuck into your room and was playing a prank on you.
I assure you that she had absolutely NO way of getting into my room since I had installed a lock-and-key style door-knock the previous day, always kept it locked before I went to work, including keeping the windows closed and locked, and it would certainly be an absurd prank with absolutely no motive what-so-ever, just to sneak into my room to knock over ONE piece of furniture, then sneak back out, somehow leaving everything else untouched, plus such an activity would not match her character/personality. Also, lock-smiths are out of the question, for my room-mates would have informed me of such visitors.

Example 3: A small earth-quake must have occurred.
Holy s**t, buddies, were it to be some sort of an earth-quake, then ALL of my other furniture should have toppled over, too ! Instead, ONE piece of furniture got knocked over, and I had other things within the room that would have been easier for an Earth-Quake to knock over, not to mention the fact that there were NO news-reports about any allegèd earth-quakes occurring on that day.

This is just a SMALL sampling of the kinds of excuses I have come across from "skeptics/debunkers" who have not personally experienced this seemingly "rare" phenomenon for themselves. JUST because YOU may not have witnessed/experienced/encountered inexplicable phenomenon, does NOT mean that the rest of us have not, similarly to how not everybody will personally experience having lived or gone through an earth-quake, watching a meteor fall from the sky, etc., some things are simply rare enough phenomenon for many people that a lot of people will simply never experience the phenomenon, and good luck trying to get it replicated, although the first time I became seemingly "psychic" I think it happened after I stuck my finger into a lamp-socket and accidentally electrocuted myself as a result.

Unless you're willing to try sticking your finger into a lamp-socket that's plugged into a 240V electrical-outlet to accidentally (although in this case it would be purposely) elecrocute yourself to confirm my theory as to whether it can induce psychic-ability or not, that is your choice, but it's been my experience that most of the so-called skeptics are really more like dogmatic-debunkers who seem to think that they already 100% for certain know the absolute be-all and end-all truth about absolutely everything related to existence and are automatically of the mind-set that they believe that X or Y is 100% impossible (this psychological-phenomenon is nothing more than history repeating, for historic so-called impossibilities are numerous, plate-tektonics, heavier-than-air-flying-machines, rocks falling from the sky [meteors], faster-than-horse-communication, invisible forces that the eye could not see being responsible for sickness and disease rather than blood-poisoning [i.e.: germs, viruses, bacteria, etc], storing documents of large volumes of words/writings onto anything other than paper/papyrus/scrolls/etc., pictures that move [motion-picture/television/computes/etc., etc.), and therefore will not even conduct tests or experiments that could potentially manifest evidence before their very own eyes for phenomenon that may potentially bring them into a potential state of potential Cognitive-Dissonance.

Sure, I have technological-vocabulary these days to be able to explain how all of these kinds of phenomenae can be induced or possibly replicated or re-produced but, for the sake of Occam's Razor, calling it Spiritual-Phenomenon is simpler, easier, requires less Technical-Vocabulary, keeping it Simple.

AspE wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
Danae wrote:
No. Yet, prove it, then why not. That said, I already have trouble believing in spirits in people with a physical body.


Agnostic discussion on these beings assumes that they do have a material body, but usually made of a finer substance.

Why assume something with no evidence to support it?


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AspE
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21 Jun 2016, 3:02 pm

Personal experience isn't validreliable evidence.



Last edited by AspE on 21 Jun 2016, 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.