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Jacoby
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22 Jul 2016, 5:39 pm

My candidate won, we defeated the Bush's and neocons despite nobody believing it could happen. The establishment lost! You better start believing because he's going to win in November too! :mrgreen:



auntblabby
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22 Jul 2016, 5:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:
My candidate won, we defeated the Bush's and neocons despite nobody believing it could happen. The establishment lost! You better start believing because he's going to win in November too! :mrgreen:

I hope for your sake that things do not descend into a nightmare.



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22 Jul 2016, 5:46 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
Gee, I wonder there were ever going to be a second American Civil War when Trump does become president?


Perhaps the world will be kinder to American refugees than they are to the Syrian ones...if that ends up being the case.


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22 Jul 2016, 5:48 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
UncannyDanny wrote:
Gee, I wonder there were ever going to be a second American Civil War when Trump does become president?


Perhaps the world will be kinder to American refugees than they are to the Syrian ones...if that ends up being the case.

perhaps a lot of us might wanna start praying and praying hard....



Jacoby
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22 Jul 2016, 5:49 pm

Trump analogues Obama as the change candidate, we will see if he really is a man of his word or he's a let down like Obama. I saw Obama in person in 2008, just as I did Trump in 2016.

I have no worries about him being this fanciful dictator some of you guys are worried about, he'll be bond by the same powers Obama had during his presidency and the same George W Bush before that.



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22 Jul 2016, 5:51 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you will by default get the greater of two evils. i would rather have the lesser evil, since that is the only realistic choice i have.


But is either of them really the lesser evil?


Yes Clinton is by far the lesser of two evils, if that's the way you see it. There is a reason why Bernie and Warren decided to endorse her. And again at least the Democrats have the progressive caucus so even if you hate Hillary voting for her would make the jobs of the people progressives support easier. Electing Trump would only empower Republicans. Just look at how bad their platform is compared to the Democrats. We have to remember the down ticket races as well. If we get enough progressives in office then we can push Hillary to the right side if the issues. There is no chance of that in a Trump Presidency, we would be forced to play defense for at least the next 4 years.

Progressives need to take over the Democratic party the same way the tea party took over the Republicans. Start from the bottom and work our way to the top.


I suspect Hillary is a lot more socially conservative than she lets on though, and for some reason that concerns me more than some of Trumps outlandish claims and threats like the whole wall thing...I doubt it would ever make it through congress. Of course Trumps choice of vice president is a known social conservative so that's concerning as well. I really think the two party system needs to be demolished in some way.


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22 Jul 2016, 5:53 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I have no worries about him being this fanciful dictator some of you guys are worried about, he'll be bond by the same powers Obama had during his presidency and the same George W Bush before that.


That is true.


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auntblabby
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22 Jul 2016, 5:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I really think the two party system needs to be demolished in some way.

i wonder how it could be done.



Jacoby
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22 Jul 2016, 5:58 pm

Our system is set up to be a two party system, the only way to change that is to change the system. The countries with all these many parties are the proportionally represented parliamentary systems that need a majority(outright or thru coalition) to govern. Basically you'd need a new constitution.



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22 Jul 2016, 6:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you will by default get the greater of two evils. i would rather have the lesser evil, since that is the only realistic choice i have.


But is either of them really the lesser evil?


Yes Clinton is by far the lesser of two evils, if that's the way you see it. There is a reason why Bernie and Warren decided to endorse her. And again at least the Democrats have the progressive caucus so even if you hate Hillary voting for her would make the jobs of the people progressives support easier. Electing Trump would only empower Republicans. Just look at how bad their platform is compared to the Democrats. We have to remember the down ticket races as well. If we get enough progressives in office then we can push Hillary to the right side if the issues. There is no chance of that in a Trump Presidency, we would be forced to play defense for at least the next 4 years.

Progressives need to take over the Democratic party the same way the tea party took over the Republicans. Start from the bottom and work our way to the top.


I suspect Hillary is a lot more socially conservative than she lets on though, and for some reason that concerns me more than some of Trumps outlandish claims and threats like the whole wall thing...I doubt it would ever make it through congress. Of course Trumps choice of vice president is a known social conservative so that's concerning as well. I really think the two party system needs to be demolished in some way.


She gave a speech to the UN representing the United States where she said "Gay rights are human rights" to some very unwelcoming members of the crowd. She has done :?: :?: :?: nothing that I can remember that would indicate she wants to roll back any of the social changes we have made. Pence is explicit in his desire to do so. Obama has been able to make a huge impact on this nation despite the Republicans blocking him at every single turn. So even if Trump can't get things through congress that doesn't mean he's still not dangerous. I'll never try to tell you Hillary is perfect but she is still the best chance we have of moving progressive values forward or at least preserving the progress we have made. Trump has already emboldened the radical right. I doubt very much that David Duke would be running for the Senate right now if Trump didn't drag all the racists and xenophobes out of the woodwork.



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22 Jul 2016, 6:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
How about nobody for President? I am not a fan of Trump, but I don't think he's quite comparable to Hitler either way seems it's between him and Hillary and neither are worth voting for in my opinion.

Remember you said that when you lose your SSI as part of Trump's war on "waste fraud and abuse."

Everybody knows that people with "invisible" disabilities are just faking it to cheat the government.


I don't know about that, I'm not a fraud and certainly not abusing anything, I suppose they could rationalize it's a waste for people with invisible disabilities to be on it.


I think that that is his point.


I guess, just suppose I don't know what to do with said point....


I meant the first part: that you're not a fraud, and not abusing anything.
Which would mean...that it would be wrong to treat you as if you were that and cut off your SSI.

So a candidate (dont know if he would, but lets say he would) is going to do that to you then it would be imperative for you to vote against him by voting for the other person. That's what the ballot is for.



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23 Jul 2016, 1:07 am

People want a big bad bully in office to defeat ISIS. I'll tip my hat off to him if he is able to do it.

Trump is doing well precisely because he is a mean-spirited person and people think we need a bully to outbully the bullies. I predicted that he would be the nominee about 2 years ago. I should have met a bet. I could have won some serious cash probably.



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23 Jul 2016, 1:44 am

I can't help but think that many americans vote note for the candidate or party that will be good for America, but for the candidate or party that they think will best STICK IT to the people they don't like.



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23 Jul 2016, 9:46 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
How about nobody for President? I am not a fan of Trump, but I don't think he's quite comparable to Hitler either way seems it's between him and Hillary and neither are worth voting for in my opinion.

Remember you said that when you lose your SSI as part of Trump's war on "waste fraud and abuse."

Everybody knows that people with "invisible" disabilities are just faking it to cheat the government.


I don't know about that, I'm not a fraud and certainly not abusing anything, I suppose they could rationalize it's a waste for people with invisible disabilities to be on it.


I think that that is his point.


I guess, just suppose I don't know what to do with said point....


I meant the first part: that you're not a fraud, and not abusing anything.
Which would mean...that it would be wrong to treat you as if you were that and cut off your SSI.

So a candidate (dont know if he would, but lets say he would) is going to do that to you then it would be imperative for you to vote against him by voting for the other person. That's what the ballot is for.

Yes, that is exactly my point. Since welfare reform disability rolls (SSI/SSDI) have swelled. Many of the new people have 'invisible' disabilities--mental illnesses, etc.

The narrative on the GOP side is that many of these people are malingerers and if they get power they'll try to cull the herd. And it will be people with invisible disabilities that will be the first to go because it is easy to look at these able-bodied people and dissmiss any mental issues, including autism as weakness of character.


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Jacoby
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23 Jul 2016, 11:15 am

That is really fearmongering

Trump has gone out of his way to say he wouldn't cut Social Security or Medicare

That's why when Trump becomes president it is imperative for Democrats to be eager to work with him as he is someone who negotiates and horse trades while valuing personal relationships. There are a lot of things Trump believes that maybe someone like Ted Cruz doesn't so don't make Trump dependent on the Ted Cruz's of the world to pass legislation since that is who you are really empowering.



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23 Jul 2016, 12:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
That is really fearmongering

Trump has gone out of his way to say he wouldn't cut Social Security or Medicare

That's why when Trump becomes president it is imperative for Democrats to be eager to work with him as he is someone who negotiates and horse trades while valuing personal relationships. There are a lot of things Trump believes that maybe someone like Ted Cruz doesn't so don't make Trump dependent on the Ted Cruz's of the world to pass legislation since that is who you are really empowering.

Trump said he would save social security by getting rid of all the waste fraud and abuse. The GOP narrative is that most people on disability don't deserve it. Trump is going to save social security by cutting people off.

That's his policy.


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