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EzraS
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10 Nov 2016, 2:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I wonder what it would be replaced with...Obamacare wouldn't have been attempted if there weren't issues with healthcare, so not sure just making it how it was before for instance would be useful.


That's the question. One would have to hope he's capable of coming up with something and pushing it through. I get the impression he's good at getting what he wants. It seems he pretty much bulldozed his way into the republican nomination out of sheer determination way against the odds. I mean he just mowed down everyone else running for it. Seems like a can do guy. I hope.



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10 Nov 2016, 7:01 pm

nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Medicaid and Medicare exist apart from Obamacare. If Obamacare were repealed and replaced, Medicaid and Medicare would still exist. Moreover, the "replace" part of Trump's plan would substitute Obamacare with another option.


Medicaid's expansion would be reversed, however.


What's Medicaid expansion? Are they getting extra benefits through Obamacare?

The expansion just meant it was expanded to cover a more variety of people.
Medicaid and Medicare lost benefits from obama care. I can't go to dentist anymore as it won't pay for anything but tooth removal now



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10 Nov 2016, 7:20 pm

How about repealing it because it was a massive fraud and a galaxy of lies from the very beginning?


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nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 7:40 pm

sly279 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
beneficii wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Medicaid and Medicare exist apart from Obamacare. If Obamacare were repealed and replaced, Medicaid and Medicare would still exist. Moreover, the "replace" part of Trump's plan would substitute Obamacare with another option.


Medicaid's expansion would be reversed, however.


What's Medicaid expansion? Are they getting extra benefits through Obamacare?

The expansion just meant it was expanded to cover a more variety of people.
Medicaid and Medicare lost benefits from obama care. I can't go to dentist anymore as it won't pay for anything but tooth removal now


Doesn't sound like it's helping you at all.


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nurseangela
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10 Nov 2016, 7:42 pm

Darmok wrote:
How about repealing it because it was a massive fraud and a galaxy of lies from the very beginning?



Hey! I didn't get to keep my doctor and I have a PPO!


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10 Nov 2016, 8:36 pm

The idea behind Obamacare was that by getting people to the doctor before it got so bad they had to go to the emergency room, medical costs could be reduced. This is the reason I had a relatively expensive colonoscopy a few months ago as screening procedure--rather than waiting for colon cancer to show up.

I don't know if saving lives is really a factor or not when it comes to political decisions--the money seems to be the important factor. You could look back to the Regan years when the mentally ill ended up on the street sans local safety nets to save money. The saving lives part might just be a scare tactic.



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11 Nov 2016, 7:16 am

The real problem isn't the insurance. It's the outrageous prices Americans have to pay for the exact same treatment they can get for much less almost anywhere else in the world. I don't think Trump will do s**t about this. Nor will the republicans in congress. They aren't the kind of people who care in the least about those less fortunate than themselves. Obviously money doesn't just disappear in a black hole. There are greedy people somewhere benefiting off the leeching of the sick in America. The Americans are idiots not to see their enemy among them.



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11 Nov 2016, 10:34 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ez ... _blog.html
Two of the five most profitable industries in the United States — the pharmaceuticals industry and the medical device industry — sell health care. With margins of almost 20 percent, they beat out even the financial sector for sheer profitability.
The players sitting across the table from them — the health insurers — are not so profitable. In 2009, their profit margins were a mere 2.2 percent. That’s a signal that the sellers have the upper hand over the buyers.



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12 Nov 2016, 11:19 am

Good article on the rude awakening in for Trump on repealing most of Obamacare while keeping the kids stay on till 26 and can't deny for pre-existing conditions rules. Of course, if you do that, and require prices to always be affordable, then people will game the system and buy health insurance only when they're sick and not have it when they're healthy, causing the insurance market to collapse.

The reason why Trump and the GOP are so vague about their replacement, beyond what in Obamacare they will keep and "let them sell insurance across state lines", is because they don't have a viable solution. As the author here states, if you want to guarantee affordable health care for all, you are going to have to have rules and subsidies, no ifs ands or buts about it:

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Of course, if you want to scrap guaranteed issue, scrap community rating, scrap the individual mandate and scrap the subsidies, as Republicans, propose, then you end up where the country was in 2008—with a market system that inevitable gives way to an insurance spiral in which steadily rising premiums cause a steadily rising percentage of Americans without health insurance.

There are no easy solutions here, no free lunches. You can’t have all the good parts of an unregulated insurance market (freedom to buy what you want, when you want, with market pricing) without the bad parts (steadily rising premiums and insurance that is unaffordable for people who are old and sick).


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... /#comments


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12 Nov 2016, 12:16 pm







Trump is pretty liberal to moderate on healthcare

there is plenty that can be done other than Obamacare, acting like that is our only option isn't the truth

what we have now is corporatist healthcare which is much much worse than socialism



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12 Nov 2016, 1:31 pm

Looks like he wont be entirely scrapping it after all:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528


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12 Nov 2016, 1:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Looks like he wont be entirely scrapping it after all:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528

That was beneficii's point though.

Those provisions won't work if you remove the mandate.

Otherwise, people will only buy insurance right before they use it, then cancel it when they don't need it.

All the insurers will eventually leave the exchanges.



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12 Nov 2016, 1:50 pm

Healthcare is much too expensive and big part of the reason for that is the dependence on insurance, they are a middle man that feels comfortable ripping doctors off and vice versa. There is no reason for basic healthcare to cost as much as it does, the is a ton of fraud/abuse/price gouging going on which needs to be cracked down upon. We shouldn't be dependent on insurance schemes, we'll spend a trillion dollars over 10 years paying for crappy health insurance coverage not actual affordable healthcare so maybe it would be better to cut the middle man out? Insurance should be more for catastrophic stuff that one doesn't anticipate happening, using insurance for all healthcare is just a straight up racket since it can only work most people don't use it. Those that don't think there are any other options lack imagination.



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12 Nov 2016, 2:04 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Healthcare is much too expensive and big part of the reason for that is the dependence on insurance, they are a middle man that feels comfortable ripping doctors off and vice versa. There is no reason for basic healthcare to cost as much as it does, the is a ton of fraud/abuse/price gouging going on which needs to be cracked down upon. We shouldn't be dependent on insurance schemes, we'll spend a trillion dollars over 10 years paying for crappy health insurance coverage not actual affordable healthcare so maybe it would be better to cut the middle man out? Insurance should be more for catastrophic stuff that one doesn't anticipate happening, using insurance for all healthcare is just a straight up racket since it can only work most people don't use it. Those that don't think there are any other options lack imagination.


The GOP will protect corporate profits (what you call "fraud/abuse/price gouging").

That'll be the most important aspect of any replacement.



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12 Nov 2016, 3:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Healthcare is much too expensive and big part of the reason for that is the dependence on insurance, they are a middle man that feels comfortable ripping doctors off and vice versa. There is no reason for basic healthcare to cost as much as it does, the is a ton of fraud/abuse/price gouging going on which needs to be cracked down upon. We shouldn't be dependent on insurance schemes, we'll spend a trillion dollars over 10 years paying for crappy health insurance coverage not actual affordable healthcare so maybe it would be better to cut the middle man out? Insurance should be more for catastrophic stuff that one doesn't anticipate happening, using insurance for all healthcare is just a straight up racket since it can only work most people don't use it. Those that don't think there are any other options lack imagination.


So you'd restrict what health insurance could be sold, or what? I'm having a hard time actually getting a specific policy proposal out of your post.


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12 Nov 2016, 3:37 pm

beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Healthcare is much too expensive and big part of the reason for that is the dependence on insurance, they are a middle man that feels comfortable ripping doctors off and vice versa. There is no reason for basic healthcare to cost as much as it does, the is a ton of fraud/abuse/price gouging going on which needs to be cracked down upon. We shouldn't be dependent on insurance schemes, we'll spend a trillion dollars over 10 years paying for crappy health insurance coverage not actual affordable healthcare so maybe it would be better to cut the middle man out? Insurance should be more for catastrophic stuff that one doesn't anticipate happening, using insurance for all healthcare is just a straight up racket since it can only work most people don't use it. Those that don't think there are any other options lack imagination.


So you'd restrict what health insurance could be sold, or what? I'm having a hard time actually getting a specific policy proposal out of your post.


We need to lessen the dependence on health insurance and make basic and preventative healthcare much more affordable, there was a time before the rise of HMOs. I'm not a legislator obviously but it's easy to come up with ideas. Maybe don't force these insurance companies to cover chronic pre-existing conditions and take these people out of the market and create some other system to help out these people, you can't make a profit off these people so they shouldn't be in the private market in my opinion. I think drug prices can looked at, I think a lot of that could be changed by simply altering drug patent laws. I don't believe that creating a pharmaceutical monopoly in necessary to fund research and development. The real free market isn't something to be totally fear with healthcare either, look at how the price of cosmetic surgeries like Lasik which have been able to survive in the market.

There are a lot of ideas and I think it can be something that states experiment with too, Vermont for example attempted to create a single-payer system I think. It was a lofty idea that didn't work but I don't fault them for trying. Don't let sentimental attachment to Obamacare keep you from thinking we can do better.