Can one be both conservative and tolerant?

Page 3 of 14 [ 215 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14 Next

Joined: 18 Apr 2014
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

25 Feb 2017, 9:42 pm

I think conservatives discuss more on the nature of Islam itself, not so much blind hatred. Given that progressives and SJWs won't let us talk about it for fear of "offending the muslims", even a racist should might as well be able to openly spout his first amendment rights without being ridiculed by society. Yeah, we might as well go back to the 1950s, at least people didn't silence the oppressed in those days or ridiculed them as much as progressives do to the right today.

Why are we saying social conservatives are actually overall worse than the liberals or progressives. Just because it's PC doesn't mean it's the truth. Somebody has to say it.

I admit it. I am a liberal on lots of things. I think it's right for the government to provide certain services like transportation, science research and domestic problems. I'm not a progressive, they value quality over anything else in society. Ironically, it's not really equality. They want to put hate crime and hate speech laws on the books in America.

cberg
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

25 Feb 2017, 9:50 pm

Ok but that really doesn't explain the right being 'oppressed'. Any right or left winger with a legitimate interest in U.S. civics knows the extent of your free speech so that points towards no political legitimacy of those 'left' sources of censorship, which certainly don't seem to be whitewashing much of anything lately. By saying 'we're' the ones calling social conservatism worse than so & so, you're counting your own viewpoint out. You're ignoring the progress to be gained via the interests you support.

_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,923
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

25 Feb 2017, 10:16 pm

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

EzraS wrote:

I think part of the notion that liberals are the champions of tolerance agaist intolerant conservatives, is due to a lot of liberal propaganda.

No it's honestly not. I for one am angry about what Social Conservatives have done to the US. They have legitimized a level of hate towards Muslims and other ethnic groups. 13 million Undocumented immigrants now risk being deported. And religious restoration acts across the country have discriminated against LGBT people, you know throughout a large part of the country you are able to deny services and employment to people on the grounds of their sexuality.

I am against Conservatives 80% of the time I just hate the politics of demonization and alienation when you people aren't so bad.

Since when haven't people in this or any country illegally, been in danger of being deported? The US is getting as tough immigration as many other nations have always been. I think the real problem has been the US being too soft in the past and letting the problem get out of control. I think saying conservatives have legitimized hatred towards Muslims and other ethnic groups, sounds more like an emotionally charged accusation than an accurate one. Religion, especially Islam by the way, has always been agaist LGBT. But what services and employment are being denied when that's against the law? A chunk of this still sounds like liberal rhetoric to me. The conservatives are the tyrannical oppressors and the liberals are the altruistic liberators. See I think the real politics of demonizing is coming from the left.

Is demonization coming from the left, or is the left only holding a mirror up to the right?
And sure, Islam is anti-LGBT, but so is Catholicism. But no one is for keeping Irish or Italian immigrants out for anti-LGBT bigotry out of the country.

It's seemed like obvious demonizing to me from the start. From what I've observed that's a way the whole PC/SWJ movement has operated, by vilifying and demonizing. Islam being anti-LGBT the same as Catholicism was my point - pointing it out in Catholicism is encouraged, pointing it (or most anything else) out in Islam is called "Islamophobic".

Again, no one wants to limit Irish or Italian immigration to America (at least not in modern times) as with ethnic Middle Eastern Muslims. Sounds like Islamophobia is "Trumping" any Anti-Catholic sentiment.

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

No, it's because of a combination of paranoid fear of all Muslims, and xenophobia against brown people.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

26 Feb 2017, 12:13 am

Shahunshah wrote:

Look at the religious freedom restoration acts. They have been passed all over the country by conservative governors. The effects of these is that you are allowed to allot to not refuse employment to someone on the grounds of their sexuality and mistreat them since doing that is not seen as being anything wrong after all discrimination against them is not realized. Islam is the most part anti-LGBT but that cannot be said as a means to legitimize what social conservatives are doing all across the country.

I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.

Shahunshah wrote:

The thing is about Islam is that the culture Muslims have is not as bad as what we make it seem. In the USA their have been numerous Syrian refugees and the thing is their has not been a single terrorist attack on US shores. If that has not happened than I think it is clear not many of them are terrorists. Look at the shooting in the Quebec city mosque, the problem with Trump is that the kind of attitude which is seeing Islamic culture as deplorable may make many people hate and hold contempt for them. This will foster division, may lead to more terror attacks and mistreatment towards those people.

I was never in favor of any kind of ban. It seems to me the whole terrorist attack attitude is a throwback to the Bush era. The only thing I'm pointing out with Islam is that it has many anti-liberal tenets.

Shahunshah wrote:

Illegal immigration does certainly have a cost on the people it is undeniable. But the impacts are said to be little. The average worker only has a their wages decreased by 5% and the effects of deportation will be terrible. Millions of people will lose their livelihoods and we simply cannot allow it to happen.

I'd say whoever is here illegally should be given a chance to become legal. But there's not much point in having laws that aren't enforced. And most countries have immigration laws that they enforce.

Darmok
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,030
Location: New England

26 Feb 2017, 12:18 am

> Can One Be Both Conservative *And* Tolerant?

I almost created a thread called "Can One Be Both Liberal *And* Intelligent?" but then I decided that would be mean. :mrgreen:

_________________

There Are Four Lights!

Shahunshah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,225
Location: NZ

26 Feb 2017, 12:26 am

EzraS wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

I don't really know enough about it to comment on it.

Shahunshah wrote:

I'd say whoever is here illegally should be given a chance to become legal. But there's not much point in having laws that aren't enforced. And most countries have immigration laws that they enforce.

That's the point I am trying to make Conservatives are supporting some repressive policies.It is terrible that they do that. If we let them have their way allot of bad things will happen.

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

26 Feb 2017, 12:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

No, it's because of a combination of paranoid fear of all Muslims, and xenophobia against brown people.

Looks like issues are getting confused. So you're saying the only reason why 7 out of 51 predominantly Muslim countries have been targeted is simply based on them being brown?

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 31,595
Location: Right over your left shoulder

26 Feb 2017, 12:58 am

Shahunshah wrote:

They call the other side, bigots and rednecks and all kinds of slurs. They might as well be racist themselves.

Bigot is descriptive.
Redneck is a slur, and can be defined as an ethnic slur given that it was originally primarily applied to those of Scots-Irish and Irish decent.

_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Make America Great (Depression) Again

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 31,595
Location: Right over your left shoulder

26 Feb 2017, 1:02 am

Darmok wrote:

> Can One Be Both Conservative *And* Tolerant?

I almost created a thread called "Can One Be Both Liberal *And* Intelligent?" but then I decided that would be mean. :mrgreen:

While intelligence and intellectualism aren't synonymous, it's still somewhat ironic that the anti-intellectual far-right feels they're individually or collectively in a position to mock the intelligence of any other part of the political spectrum. Careful in your glass house.

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

26 Feb 2017, 1:12 am

Darmok wrote:

> Can One Be Both Conservative *And* Tolerant?

I almost created a thread called "Can One Be Both Liberal *And* Intelligent?" but then I decided that would be mean. :mrgreen:

C'mon, go ahead and do it!
Meanness is always welcome.
:twisted:

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,923
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

26 Feb 2017, 1:21 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

No, it's because of a combination of paranoid fear of all Muslims, and xenophobia against brown people.

Looks like issues are getting confused. So you're saying the only reason why 7 out of 51 predominantly Muslim countries have been targeted is simply based on them being brown?

Because Trump does business with those other Muslim countries, and God forbid that he lose money for the sake of government policy. But at least he can use those seven countries to placate the Alt Right and generally bigoted constituents who want him to keep his promise to curtail Islamic immigration.
And no, I'm not saying all Trump voters are bigots, just the ones he's trying to appeal to with this idiot ban.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

26 Feb 2017, 1:21 am

Darmok wrote:

> Can One Be Both Conservative *And* Tolerant?

I almost created a thread called "Can One Be Both Liberal *And* Intelligent?" but then I decided that would be mean. :mrgreen:

Not to mention immediately locked, since it's going in the "wrong" direction.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

26 Feb 2017, 2:03 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

No, it's because of a combination of paranoid fear of all Muslims, and xenophobia against brown people.

Looks like issues are getting confused. So you're saying the only reason why 7 out of 51 predominantly Muslim countries have been targeted is simply based on them being brown?

He does business with 44 Muslim countries?

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,923
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

26 Feb 2017, 2:23 am

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

EzraS wrote:

So you're saying Islam being extremely anti-LGBT is the reason for current immigration limits?

No, it's because of a combination of paranoid fear of all Muslims, and xenophobia against brown people.

Looks like issues are getting confused. So you're saying the only reason why 7 out of 51 predominantly Muslim countries have been targeted is simply based on them being brown?

He does business with 44 Muslim countries?

Probably not all of them, but Saudi Arabia, which has produced fanatics who have killed Americans, is not on the list, and is a country where Trump does business, as well as Indonesia, and Pakistan, just to name a few. The others apparently don't have waves of desperate refugees, fleeing for their lives, clamoring to come to America.

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

26 Feb 2017, 9:18 am

Back to the original question, no.

Conservatism is about sticking to the old ways, and the old ways were not tolerant.

There can be some overlap, and both targets keep moving, but no.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

AspieUtah
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Brigham City, Utah

26 Feb 2017, 9:44 am

Former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson was appointed to serve from June 2001 to July 2004 under U.S. President George W. Bush. According to Wikipedia, "Olson was a founding member of the Federalist Society. He has served on the board of directors of American Spectator magazine. Olson was a prominent critic of Bill Clinton's presidency, and he helped prepare the attorneys of Paula Jones prior to their Supreme Court appearance. Olson served Giuliani's 2008 presidential campaign as judicial committee chairman. In 2012 he participated in Paul Ryan's preparation for the Vice Presidential debate, portraying Joe Biden."

But, "Olson, over time, came to believe that there is a constitutional right for same-sex marriage. In 2009, he joined with David Boies, his opposing counsel in Bush v. Gore, to bring a federal lawsuit, Perry v. Schwarzenegger, challenging Proposition 8, a California state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. His work on the lawsuit earned him a place among the Time 100's greatest thinkers. In 2011, Olson and David Boies were awarded the ABA Medal, the highest award of the American Bar Association."

So, as to the OP question, yes, it appears that conservatives can be, and are, quite tolerant.

_________________
Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)

Page 3 of 14 [ 215 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 14 Next

Jump to:

Can one be both conservative *and* tolerant? Post Reply New Topic

Can one be both conservative and tolerant?