Page 3 of 21 [ 333 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 21  Next

RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:15 am

I don't know what would happen in America but if Australian gun control laws don't reduce crime but do reduce crime that results in death then I'd consider that to be an improvement.

I don't believe banning handguns in a city such as Chicago would work since you can drive into Chicago with handguns from another part of the country.

Perhaps as you said, being on an island gives us an advantage. It's a lot harder to smuggle a gun through an airport than it is to smuggle a gun in a car. I have no doubt Australian criminals would use illegal guns if they could but there is simply no source.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:15 am

I sincerely hope you do not see that guy as a typical American. He is not. He's rather a nut, actually.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:17 am

Jacoby wrote:
You fear an inanimate object but not the person holding it, it's not law abiding citizens that are the problem but the criminals.
I'd be more scared of an armed criminal than an unarmed criminal.

What are these armed criminals usually after?


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:18 am

Ariel. I am an advocate of gun control. But you have to understand the reasoning of some who advocate guns.

Like I said earlier, most parts of America are relatively safe from gun violence. But there are places in America where this is not the case.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:20 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I sincerely hope you do not see that guy as a typical American. He is not. He's rather a nut, actually.
I don't. I don't condemn a whole nation for words of a few guys.

Yet these guys seem to be really common. Even so I don't group all Americans with them.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

11 Mar 2017, 11:21 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Civil, nonviolent disobedience has worked QUITE well at times. It made the careers of Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
What choice did they have? I'm not sure if armed revolution would have worked for MLK or Gandhi. I've never heard of armed revolution succeeding against a 20th century first world country such as the US or the UK.

It worked nicely against first world countries in the 18th century when it was musket vs musket rather than rifle vs tank. The confederates tried it in the 19th century. They lost.

I was just talking to a guy who said he needs his gun to defend against the United States government and it's "massive military right arm". It truly baffles me that he thinks his rifle will be effect against weapons such as the M1 Abrams tank or the Apache helicopter.


You apparently also haven't been paying attention to the wars the US has been in the last 50 years, we're not fighting people with tanks and helicopters but we still lose. Irregular asymmetric warfare has defeated the two greatest military powers in history, the Soviet and American empire.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

11 Mar 2017, 11:23 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ariel. I am an advocate of gun control. But you have to understand the reasoning of some who advocate guns.

Like I said earlier, most parts of America are relatively safe from gun violence. But there are places in America where this is not the case.


The least safest places in the US are the areas with the most gun control



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:24 am

Retro: Those sorts of guys might be common on some Internet sites.

But these sorts of guys are seen as being raging lunatics by most Americans, even those who advocate for guns.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:28 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm definitely not an "echo" to anybody. I am my own man.
Sorry I didn't mean that to sound insulting.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:32 am

Jacoby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Civil, nonviolent disobedience has worked QUITE well at times. It made the careers of Gandhi and Martin Luther King.
What choice did they have? I'm not sure if armed revolution would have worked for MLK or Gandhi. I've never heard of armed revolution succeeding against a 20th century first world country such as the US or the UK.

It worked nicely against first world countries in the 18th century when it was musket vs musket rather than rifle vs tank. The confederates tried it in the 19th century. They lost.

I was just talking to a guy who said he needs his gun to defend against the United States government and it's "massive military right arm". It truly baffles me that he thinks his rifle will be effect against weapons such as the M1 Abrams tank or the Apache helicopter.
You apparently also haven't been paying attention to the wars the US has been in the last 50 years, we're not fighting people with tanks and helicopters but we still lose. Irregular asymmetric warfare has defeated the two greatest military powers in history, the Soviet and American empire.
Touché

Perhaps a unified guerrilla revolution could defeat even the world's most powerful military but is American culture united enough to form a national rebel militia? Even guerrilla fighters have to be organised.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


ArielsSong
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Mar 2016
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 673
Location: Lancashire, UK

11 Mar 2017, 11:34 am

Jacoby wrote:
ArielsSong wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I can say with certainty that most people don't take shooting somebody lightly.

But if somebody threatens to shoot you or your family with a gun, or take your car or something, it's natural to want to defend yourself.


Thing is, it's VERY unlikely that someone will threaten to shoot you or your family with a gun...if you stop giving everyone guns!

I see it as indoctrination. It's almost like discussing with people in a religious cult. They have no sensible reason for people being allowed to have guns. Just that it's their 'right', or that they have to because other people have them, which is obviously a never-ending cycle.


You fear an inanimate object but not the person holding it, it's not law abiding citizens that are the problem but the criminals. It's not a religious cult because I'm educated on it, we're not the ones that are ignorant or fearful about guns which you primarily see in movies or TV.

I grew up hunting with my dad, I held a gun in hands very young and its important to teach your child the proper way of handling a gun because the alternative is something potentially tragic. Hunting is a part of the way of life for a lot of people in this country by the way, it's never going to be taken away. We have guns because we will not allow them to be taken.



And yet, here I am living in a country where guns are not legal and I have never once been in a situation where I was afraid that someone was going to use a gun in my presence.

And the argument of people in the US is that they need them for protection. So why don't we? It's because they're illegal here, so we don't live in that constant state of fear that makes it seem reasonable to potentially 'have' to shoot someone, or to have ownership of dangerous weapons.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:34 am

People have to separate the Internet from real life.

If the Internet was a microcosm of the world, we would be destroying our species.

The Internet "allows" people to express their basest emotions and to adopt personas.

It's possible that the guy Retro spoke with is actually a settled family man who adheres to the American Dream. But who wants to have fun with non-Americans.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:36 am

I've been the victim of crime. You've been quite fortunate, Ariel.

Like I said, I am an advocate of gun control. But the other position has some justification, too.



ArielsSong
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Mar 2016
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 673
Location: Lancashire, UK

11 Mar 2017, 11:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've been the victim of crime. You've been quite fortunate, Ariel.


I'm not saying that I've never been the victim of crime, but that I've never had to worry about guns being involved because I live in a country where they're controlled.

If I lived in the US, I would probably feel the need to own a gun because everyone else did (and it is horrifying, as a peaceful person, to think that I may have need to be in the position to harm or kill someone no matter that they were 'in the wrong' first), but I am fortunate to live in the UK where I don't need to worry about this because other people don't own guns either.

It's a catch 22 for the US. Everyone feels like they need to own them because everyone owns them.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

11 Mar 2017, 11:46 am

Not eveybody in the US owns a gun. I don't. And I don't know anybody who does (at least openly).

It really depends upon the region of the US, and their attitude towards gun control.

A higher percentage of people own guns in a state like Texas than in a state like Massachusetts.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,105
Location: Adelaide, Australia

11 Mar 2017, 11:55 am

I guess New York City is different from the rest of the US. Most Americans own cars too but not New Yorkers.

Do they really not own guns in Massachusetts? I can understand Bostonians not owning guns but what about in the countryside? Those old fashioned Yankees all have guns or have I been reading too many Stephen King novels?


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short