What opinions are mandatory for a feminist?

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spaceone
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18 Dec 2017, 1:36 pm

Hyeokgeose wrote:
spaceone wrote:
Tross wrote:
Throwing guys under the bus or even the more specific demographic of white guys wouldn't be the end of inequality.

I don't think the real message is so much throwing white guys under the bus as it is ending the system of control that disproportionately favors white males over other demographics. I think the ideal that feminists seek out is to be able to see women be able to enjoy the same privileges as white males, and that this ideal often overlaps with a desire to see other disenfranchised peoples be able to enjoy those same privileges as well.

I'm a mixed guy, 'Eurasian.'
Let me say this: I grew up with a single mother, and I had an abusive dad. Her family is poor, she's poor, she's still poor, I'm poor with her. There are very few scholarships and grants out there for me, and of which are hard to obtain (4.0 GPA to get a small $500 grant, for example); meanwhile, women and people with melanin, have lower academic requirements (esp. those with affirmative action), get absurdly large grants and scholarships (such as a cyber security scholarship that requires a 2.5 GPA but gives $20,000/year to women -- the same scholarship program for men, too, but white + asian men are required to have 4.0 and get $500), they win divorce cases very often, men are to be courteous and servile to them in public, women can often hit men freely (not to be confused with beating someone to a pulp) while men cannot hit women without severe charges (regardless of strength), women can get away with speeding tickets by crying while cops laugh at men that cry, they get maternity leave (though I know some feminists advocate for male maternity leave), and they don't get shot by cops or become victims of crimes in general as much as men do. Also, men have a lot more social pressure in regards to the workplace and expectations. In addition, men work the dirty jobs while women tend to work in more comfortable environments, with the exception being some social workers (like my mom). There are a lot of privileges that women have that men don't, and certain feminist groups are pressing for even more.

I'm gona start this post off by mentioning I forgot an important adjective in my previous description and that is rich white men. Rich white males control Western society and have tweaked it in their favor. In America, and most likely in the rest of the Western world, classism is prevalent. Also, I am a white male with an income level below the poverty-line, so to an extent, I can understand where you're coming from on some of your issues. With that being said:

Gona start this off with the police thing, since it hits close to home. When I was in high school, a female friend of mine was groped during a traffic stop. On top of that, minority and impoverish women generally get treated similarly as minority and impoverish men, I would even err on the side as to say they get treated worse. The "crying to get out of a speeding ticket" thing is a pretty specific and stereotypical situation that doesn't reflect reality.

An example on the poverty spectrum: I drive a beat up car that cost me $1000. Just a few weeks ago, the cops pulled me over in my driveway and pulled guns on me because they claimed they could not read my license plate. Would this have happened if I was driving a Tesla? Hell to the f**k no. They wouldn't even have looked at me twice.

Ok, on to the next one. Men are required to be courteous and servile in public? Well, everyone should be courteous to everyone until someone gives us a reason not to be. Servile? I don't think anyone should expect that, and if they do, well feel free to throw your courtesy out the window, my friend. And once again, minorities, including poor and non-white females, often do not receive said courtesies.

On, scholarships.. to be honest, I'm not very educated on scholarships. I got my GED and I largely believe the US education system is a scam. There are European countries that will even educate non-citizens for free, so I think the college costs in America are ridiculous. With that being said, I know that I can get financial aid for community college that pays me more than $500, so I'm skeptical of the validity of your claim. However, I do know that Asians do face higher standards getting into college in the US. Asian women are not excluded from this demographic.

Domestic abuse. Women absolutely can be charged with domestic abuse. It is illegal for either sex to hit their partner. Now, I do agree that the law tends to err in favor of women in these situations. As for the divorce thing, I'm not going to claim to be knowledgeable on that front.

Maternity leave. I'm sorry dude but women absolutely deserve maternity leave, and this is as much for the woman as it is for the child. Any person who has had a child will tell you that taking care of a screaming, sh*****g, pissing, puking infant hardly constitutes as a vacation. And this little gremlin is expensive to take care of. Also, the US does not mandate maternity leave and is basically the only first world country that is like this.

Social pressure in jobs. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. But I do know that women are often denied opportunities that their male counterparts receive, ie getting turned down in promotions and job opportunities where less qualified men often succeed. On top of that, women disproportionately have to deal with sexual harassment in the workplace, and their "privileges" are largely dependent upon the notion of sex.

Dirty jobs? That comes down to preference. Men aren't forced to work these jobs, and a woman absolutely could work these jobs if she so chose.

On top of all of this, women are still in constant fear of sexual harassment/assault everywhere they go. This isn't some new feminist smear campaign, this is something that has existed for as long as humans have existed.

Now, all of this is just from my perspective as a white male. I'm sure that the women here on WP could expand on any or all of these subjects.



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18 Dec 2017, 2:15 pm

spaceone wrote:
Tross wrote:
Throwing guys under the bus or even the more specific demographic of white guys wouldn't be the end of inequality.

I don't think the real message is so much throwing white guys under the bus as it is ending the system of control that disproportionately favors white males over other demographics. I think the ideal that feminists seek out is to be able to see women be able to enjoy the same privileges as white males, and that this ideal often overlaps with a desire to see other disenfranchised peoples be able to enjoy those same privileges as well.


Post modernist spotted.



spaceone
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18 Dec 2017, 2:48 pm

Closet Genious wrote:
Post modernist spotted.

I'm not convinced that you know what that means :roll:



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18 Dec 2017, 3:35 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
I worked for a neurologist. His wife was a state legislator.

His old beater compact car had this bumper sticker on it:

Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.

That's my mandatory opinion and I'm sticking to it :-)


The problem with feminism is not that the want equality is the fact that feminism is anti-white and anti-christiantity while being pro non-white males and pro islam, hinduism, buddhism etc. It is this double moral that me and other dont like with you feminists.


Well, I'm a white Christian, so there goes that straw man. I'm also anti bigotry, no matter who's exhibiting it, against whom. I don't think hatred is an answer to anything, no matter who is pushing it, or how they attempt to disguise it. It is, however, a very effective way to keep the peasants squabbling among themselves, so the oligarchs/robber barons/kleptocrats can rob them blind while their backs are turned. That ploy has worked for many generations, sadly.

Over and out.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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18 Dec 2017, 5:57 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
Esmerelda Weatherwax wrote:
I worked for a neurologist. His wife was a state legislator.

His old beater compact car had this bumper sticker on it:

Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.

That's my mandatory opinion and I'm sticking to it :-)


The problem with feminism is not that the want equality is the fact that feminism is anti-white and anti-christiantity while being pro non-white males and pro islam, hinduism, buddhism etc. It is this double moral that me and other dont like with you feminists.


A belief in equity is the foundation of feminism, and has been since the beginning in the 19th century.

Have you noticed that none of the feminists you're speaking to here believe the things you claim all feminists believe? I wonder if this will make you reassess your ideas about feminists?

What am I saying, of course you're not going to reexamine your ideas no matter what evidence you are presented with, because you are devoted to your biases. :lol:



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18 Dec 2017, 5:59 pm

League_Girl wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't feminism someone who believes in equal rights for men and women?

^^^^
This

The OP’s list is mandatory for SJW’s.


I guess I am a feminist but I never put that label on myself. The OP's description of feminism doesn't fit me because I believe none of that stuff.


By that list, no one here who identifies as a feminist is actually a feminist. It's a great way to never have your biases challenged, to never have to reexamine your ideas about people, if you never listen to what they say and just fill in what you think they think for yourself like the OP is doing.



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18 Dec 2017, 7:58 pm

My message is towards SJW "feminists" rather than regular feminists.

SJW "feminists" think all white people, especially male, walk in lockstep but I can tell you as someone who grew up (and is stuck) in the Bible Belt, the "good 'ol boy" capital of the universe, it isn't true at all. Rednecks think white people who live in the city are "city slickers" and have no morals despite how the redneck community has the highest rates of domestic violence, drug usage, alcoholism, and teen pregnancy. What they are really saying is that it's ok for them to behave badly but no one else. I've been called a "weirdo", "gay", or "Satanic" by other white guys because I don't care for football, cars, and country music and would rather read a book, find action figures more fun to look at than cars, and listen to music that isn't as deep as a puddle. I also don't mindlessly call myself a Christian to appear "normal" or to fit in. If you are a Wiccan and are a fan of heavy metal music, white Christians will hate you the most. Your dating pool is also already small because most women in the Bible Belt think men who aren't Christian have no morals and are "strange" or worse. I have never been given a job promotion or offers, I don't have a lot of friends, and most women I encounter, even if they are open to pre-marital sex, hate me for being non-religious.



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18 Dec 2017, 11:29 pm

Skilpadde wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't feminism someone who believes in equal rights for men and women?


That is literally the only thing that you must believe to be a feminist. There are lots of different types of feminism, but the equality of men and women is the basic common tenet of all feminism. Just like there are lots of different flavours of Christianity but the one common tenet of all of them is the belief in Jesus Christ.
Yep, both of you, but trying to get some men to understand that. There are some men who truly prove this quote:

‘When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression’

Yes I have so much privilege. I must get back to my mansion,servants, fancy cars, and 20 wife’s. Every white guy has that right?
I have no privilege.



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19 Dec 2017, 3:40 am

As this conversation has progressed quite a bit since I've been quoted by spaceone, let alone since I've made my post, note that I have not ignored anyone's response since and actually find it all quite intriguing. I will say that while I do believe feminism has gone too far in some cases, I don't actually believe it is necessarily because feminists have become man-haters. I think in some cases it's just well-intentioned pushing back against perceived inequality that has overstepped its intended bounds. Note that I also believe there is a need for feminism as I believe there is indeed still some cases of inequality. But, as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and human error has clearly tarnished the reputation of a philosophy that I think deserves to be portrayed in a better light.

I also do not doubt that there are certain things that should be addressed going forward, in the interest of pursuing the end of equality. Yes, the fact that there are women's scholarships (along with minority scholarships), and that certain fields actually make it way easier for those who aren't both white and male to enter into them, proves that us white guys have our own BS to deal with, and I hope that will eventually be addressed. Such policies are clearly in place to address issues of inequality as certain populations were probably historically less likely to be educated and enter into certain fields, but they're clearly outdated, if they were ever what was needed to begin with. That said, I believe there are far more respectful ways in which we can push back against such BS without becoming jerks. Note I like to think it's only a small minority of white guys who are taking things too far, but they're no better than the "feminists" who are often criticized IMHO.



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19 Dec 2017, 5:05 am

white_as_snow wrote:
- that only white men and Christians can be racists, homophobics and anti-women.
- Christianity is the only religion that is homophobic, anti-women and violent.
- that white men are the only ones who had slaves.
- that white men and Christians are not and have never been oppressed or experienced racism.
- that it is white men's fault that non-white males rapes women.
- that all white men are bad people
- that white men must disappear, this will happen via mass immigration, which will lead to white becoming a small minority and eventually after hundreds of years disappear.
- that white men rule the whole world, all countries, all cities, all rich are white men.
- that white men have anti-women views, racism, homophobia in the blood / DNA

Did i miss something?

time to feminists to change their views? feminists movement is very radical for beliving in this stuff.


Nice strawman. If feminists claim they don't have those beliefs, I'm sure you'll keep repeating that they do because it fits your narrative.

Honestly MRAs have become the new SJWs. MRAs cherrypick and exaggerate in the same way SJWs do. They make themselves into pathetic powerless victims in a desperate attempt to get sympathy points in the same way SJWs do. If it weren't for the fact that MRAs are pro-male and SJWs are pro-female, I couldn't even tell them apart. They're mirror image twins. You MRAs are SJWs with situs inversus.


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19 Dec 2017, 11:50 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Isn't feminism someone who believes in equal rights for men and women?


I didn't think it was. The impression I keep getting from them is that it has more to do with female priviledge and misandry.



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20 Dec 2017, 12:42 am

Lintar wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't feminism someone who believes in equal rights for men and women?


I didn't think it was. The impression I keep getting from them is that it has more to do with female priviledge and misandry.



It's the definition I get when I look it up.


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20 Dec 2017, 12:45 am

League_Girl wrote:
Lintar wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Isn't feminism someone who believes in equal rights for men and women?


I didn't think it was. The impression I keep getting from them is that it has more to do with female priviledge and misandry.


It's the definition I get when I look it up.


In that case there are a lot of people calling themselves feminists who aren't feminists.


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30 Dec 2017, 2:14 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Honestly MRAs have become the new SJWs. MRAs cherrypick and exaggerate in the same way SJWs do. They make themselves into pathetic powerless victims in a desperate attempt to get sympathy points in the same way SJWs do. If it weren't for the fact that MRAs are pro-male and SJWs are pro-female, I couldn't even tell them apart. They're mirror image twins. You MRAs are SJWs with situs inversus.


Hello...? The SJWs are the whole reason the MRA movement was created in the first place.

What would be a fun spin-off from this thread is discussion about ways to "correct" the damage that this female superiority has done. I think most of it was beginning in the 60s to the 80s.



spaceone
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30 Dec 2017, 2:34 am

You could start by taking that feminist out of your avatar

Yeah reverse that feminist damage. Make it how it used to be, like in the 1950s when women and men were equal.
:roll:



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30 Dec 2017, 8:52 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Honestly MRAs have become the new SJWs. MRAs cherrypick and exaggerate in the same way SJWs do. They make themselves into pathetic powerless victims in a desperate attempt to get sympathy points in the same way SJWs do. If it weren't for the fact that MRAs are pro-male and SJWs are pro-female, I couldn't even tell them apart. They're mirror image twins. You MRAs are SJWs with situs inversus.


Hello...? The SJWs are the whole reason the MRA movement was created in the first place.

What would be a fun spin-off from this thread is discussion about ways to "correct" the damage that this female superiority has done. I think most of it was beginning in the 60s to the 80s.

If your goal was to correct the damage caused by feminism you've failed. All MRAs have succeeded in doing is making feminism more popular and more mainstream.

Trying to stop SJWs by acting exactly like SJWs is like trying to stop a flood by pouring water on it.


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