Europe is returning to Fascist ideology

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DarthMetaKnight
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25 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

Lovecraft wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Europeans have always been facist. The boarders of the countries change but the cultural identity of the people does not. This is how Germans ended up in Poland and WWII was started.

If people want to immigrate there, that's on them. My ancestors had the right idea when they decided to leave.

How can Europe have always been fascist? The ideology have only existed for roughly one hundred years.

In practice, fascism is very similar to absolute monarchy, which existed in Europe for centuries.

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DarthMetaKnight
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25 Feb 2018, 4:56 pm

Chronos wrote:

Lovecraft wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Japan was fascist. I think the Ottomans were more imperial, as is modern China.

Whats the difference betwen your definition of fascism and your definition of "imperial"?

If we focus on only the differences between the two, fascists are forcefully exclusive and imperialists are forcefully inclusive.

... except that Nazi Germany forcefully included France into its collective.

Overall, undemocratic countries tend to be very similar to one another.

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Lovecraft
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25 Feb 2018, 5:25 pm

Chronos wrote:

If we focus on only the differences between the two, fascists are forcefully exclusive and imperialists are forcefully inclusive.

But by that logic Italy wouldn't really have been fascist before 1938.

The_Walrus
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25 Feb 2018, 6:16 pm

Lovecraft wrote:

AFD is just some sh***y small government and market liberalist, American style conservative party

Are you perhaps thinking of the FDP? AfD is full-blown fascist, even more so since Lucke left. They have criticised Holocaust memorials for not taking a more positive view of German history, called for refugees to be shot, and want to ban Islam in Turkey.

They're at the point where any argument that they aren't fascist would have to begin with "technically". Like, they're technically not fascist because they aren't explicitly opposed to communism or something. They're racist, nationalist authoritarians, Nazi apologists, military fetishists, reactionary misogynists. Calling them fascists is fair game at that point.

See also: Jobbik, Golden Dawn, most of FN (the dictionary example of a neo-fascist party), OVP. Even Orban and the Polish PiS couldn't really object to the accusation with their attacks on judicial independence and freedom of speech, particularly PiS denying the historical fact that Poland collaborated with the Nazis on the Holocaust.

Chronos
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25 Feb 2018, 9:18 pm

Lovecraft wrote:

Chronos wrote:

If we focus on only the differences between the two, fascists are forcefully exclusive and imperialists are forcefully inclusive.

But by that logic Italy wouldn't really have been fascist before 1938.

Italy no. The idea of Italy as a unified country is a fairly recent one, and someone from Naples would not have considered someone from Sicily among their countrymen.

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25 Feb 2018, 10:37 pm

What Is Fascism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcYU95kCAI

Chronos
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25 Feb 2018, 10:53 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Lovecraft wrote:

Chronos wrote:

Japan was fascist. I think the Ottomans were more imperial, as is modern China.

Whats the difference betwen your definition of fascism and your definition of "imperial"?

If we focus on only the differences between the two, fascists are forcefully exclusive and imperialists are forcefully inclusive.

... except that Nazi Germany forcefully included France into its collective.

Overall, undemocratic countries tend to be very similar to one another.

Fascism does not need to be contained with geographic borders. The nazis concept of fascism was contained by the idea of a master race, which they held themselves to be the pinnacle of, along with others they considered Nordic or Aryan. They stratified others into sub classes which they believed to have varying degrees of purity, and gave some non white people "honorary Aryan" status.

RetroGamer87
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26 Feb 2018, 12:34 am

Yeah Europe was so much better off before all this mass immigration started. Wait, how far back would we have to go back before the mass immigration in Europe started? Only a few thousand years.

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RetroGamer87
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26 Feb 2018, 12:38 am

Mikah wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?

The ones who didn't learn from history are the morons who thought mass immigration was a brilliant idea. Disrupt the ethnic, cultural or religious demographics of a territory and you get ethnic, cultural or religious conflict. It's not rocket science.

We should definitely kick all the immigrants out of the UK. We should start with the Angles, the Saxons and the Normans. Look at how the Angles and Saxons have disrupted the religious demographics by displacing all the Druids.

Look at how the Normans have interfered with the language by introducing all those fancy French words.

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cyberdad
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26 Feb 2018, 12:46 am

fascism as a racist ideology evolved from colonialism

Prior to colonialism European tribes were warrior societies where individualism was espoused as a social value and warrior kings ruled. Christianity tamed the warrior ethos but after colonising Africa and Asia the mentality that colonial subjects are slaves developed and hasn't quite worn off...

sly279
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26 Feb 2018, 2:12 am

Chronos wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Were non-european empires less fascist though in history? Look at the history of Ottomans, Arab empires, Japan and China.

Japan was fascist. I think the Ottomans were more imperial, as is modern China.

Modern China isn’t imperial. They are revolutionaries who over threw the emperials who withdrew to Twain. Hence the current conflict dating back to ww2. That’s why Twain isn’t part of China but China claims it is.

sly279
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26 Feb 2018, 2:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Lovecraft wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I like to point to the continuing American experiment in regard to pluralism's success.

How is american pluralism/multiculturalism successful? You have several ethnic enclaves and a large black population that haven't integrated properly even after several hundred years.

Ethnic enclaves are largely a thing of the past, save when there is a language difference, such as among newer immigrants.
Yes, blacks are ghettoized. That's a shameful aspect of my country's racism problem. But to say that all blacks live separately from everyone else is far from true.

China and Asian towns would disagree. New York’s I hear has Italian suburbs and Irish suburbs too I hear, they still have enclaves. Others exist too.
Or people wouldn’t say I’m going to the Irish part of town.

Kraichgauer
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26 Feb 2018, 2:18 am

sly279 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Lovecraft wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I like to point to the continuing American experiment in regard to pluralism's success.

How is american pluralism/multiculturalism successful? You have several ethnic enclaves and a large black population that haven't integrated properly even after several hundred years.

Sure, but the rest of us don't live that way. In true American tradition, we're mutts.

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Chronos
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26 Feb 2018, 3:03 am

sly279 wrote:

Chronos wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Were non-european empires less fascist though in history? Look at the history of Ottomans, Arab empires, Japan and China.

Japan was fascist. I think the Ottomans were more imperial, as is modern China.

Merriam Webster Dictionary wrote:

Definition of imperialism

1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power,

By definition 2, I believe Taiwan, Tibet, and those in the western regions of China would consider China to be quite imperial.

Pepe
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26 Feb 2018, 3:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Sure, but the rest of us don't live that way. In true American tradition, we're mutts.

Quote:

You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts! Here's proof: his nose is cold! But there's no animal that's more faithful, that's more loyal, more loveable than the mutt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjqTyQuq4w

Mikah
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26 Feb 2018, 4:07 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:

Mikah wrote:

thinkinginpictures wrote:

Why - WHY WHY WHY! are people REFUSING to learn from history? Do people really LIKE Fascist ideology? Do people WANT dictatorship instead of democracy?

You are correct to notice that cultures, religions and peoples do not mix all that much, that they displace one another, often amidst conflict.

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