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What is it about guns?

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Why do you own a gun?
For self-protection 18%  18%  [ 11 ]
For hunting 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
As a hobby or collection 12%  12%  [ 7 ]
Symbolic or object of desire 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I don't own a gun 63%  63%  [ 38 ]
Total votes : 60

Raptor
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09 Mar 2018, 10:49 pm

cberg wrote:
...but guns don't automatically protect anyone from others with guns.

Who here has actually said this?
Find it and post it here please.


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09 Mar 2018, 11:07 pm

I'm also just responding to the asinine, profit motivated insinuations of the NRA. They're essentially trying to convince potential customers that bullets can stop bullets.


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09 Mar 2018, 11:26 pm

cberg wrote:
I'm also just responding to the asinine, profit motivated insinuations of the NRA. They're essentially trying to convince potential customers that bullets can stop bullets.

Examples?


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09 Mar 2018, 11:30 pm

It's everywhere, suggestions that we should arm everybody as if it will stop them being shot. Sure they may have a chance of stopping someone else being shot but there's a reason duels started with equal paces in the opposite directions. Duels frequently ended in neither party surviving.

The NRA's interest is in promoting guns as an alternative to bulletproofing, something they obviously don't do. There's a reason this is considered a freak occurrence:
Image


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09 Mar 2018, 11:54 pm

sly279 wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
Tequila wrote:
I don't want a gun but I call for the UK's gun laws to be much relaxed over decades - that will be the endpoint for liberty and must be voted on by the public in successive referendums. This will coincide with the promotion of personal responsibility and a pride in family and community; ...


I'm not sure I get the connection here. I can see how gun ownership might be liberating to an individual, but I can't see the advantage to society, since gun violence would likely increase with increased levels of ownership.


And yet it didn’t. With that logic millions should die every day by guns in America. But only 10,000 ish are killed by guns a year that includes defensive and cop deaths.


Yes, it does. Not in the millions, maybe, but more than would be the case if the US did not have a culture of gun ownership.

I put this in another thread but will repeat it here:

If you look at "Violent deaths by firearm, rates per 100,000 population, 2016"*, the US is way above all European nations (bar Turkey) and other wealthy nations like Australia and Canada:

Germany, Australia = 0.1
Netherlands, Belgium = 0.3
Italy, Greece = 0.4
Canada = 0.5
France, Ireland = 0.6

United States = 3.1

There's no question that you're far more likely to face death by firearm in the US than in Europe.

* source:
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/tools/in ... lence.html



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10 Mar 2018, 12:11 am

MrsPeel wrote:
There's no question that you're far more likely to face death by firearm in the US than in Europe.

I wonder how many pictures I could post of people being massacred in Europe with guns. And yes, when the government or occupying force does it your still just as dead.


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10 Mar 2018, 12:13 am

cberg wrote:
It's everywhere, suggestions that we should arm everybody as if it will stop them being shot. Sure they may have a chance of stopping someone else being shot but there's a reason duels started with equal paces in the opposite directions. Duels frequently ended in neither party surviving.

The NRA's interest is in promoting guns as an alternative to bulletproofing, something they obviously don't do. There's a reason this is considered a freak occurrence:
Image


You're confusing promoting the right to be armed with advertising.


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10 Mar 2018, 12:20 am

I'd call you out on that, Raptor, except that I'd prefer not to put images of massacres on my thread, thank you very much.

And maybe I'm getting sidetracked, anyway. Maybe it's not about guns at all but about a sense of insecurity, that makes someone feel the need to keep weapons in the home.

When I was a child, in the UK, it wasn't only that we didn't have guns, neither did we keep baseball bats beside the door, or samurai swords or crossbows.

So for those who don't have a gun, do you have another way to defend yourself? Other types of weapon? Pepper spray?



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10 Mar 2018, 12:20 am

Raptor wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
There's no question that you're far more likely to face death by firearm in the US than in Europe.

I wonder how many pictures I could post of people being massacred in Europe with guns. And yes, when the government or occupying force does it your still just as dead.


Statistics matter more than images of single events, taken out of context.

Do you seriously think that every shooting in Europe proves that gun control doesn't work?

That wouldn't surprise me. You also seem to think that every chilly day disproves global warming.


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Raptor
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10 Mar 2018, 12:28 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Statistics matter more than images of single events, taken out of context.

Yeah, your statistics trumps piles of dead bodies.
What was I thinking?
:roll:


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10 Mar 2018, 12:41 am

MrsPeel wrote:
And maybe I'm getting sidetracked, anyway. Maybe it's not about guns at all but about a sense of insecurity, that makes someone feel the need to keep weapons in the home. When I was a child, in the UK, it wasn't only that we didn't have guns, neither did we keep baseball bats beside the door, or samurai swords or crossbows. So for those who don't have a gun, do you have another way to defend yourself? Other types of weapon? Pepper spray?

I don't know what would make me use it. i'd rather not think about it. I tried once in my life to off myself with one but was interrupted. where I live has a bunch of nasty yahoos and their uncurbed animals, so I must walk with pepper spray and am considering a taser. firearms are not allowed in my covenant community, it says on a sign at the entrance.



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10 Mar 2018, 1:28 am

MrsPeel wrote:
I'd call you out on that, Raptor, except that I'd prefer not to put images of massacres on my thread, thank you very much.

Meaning you know I could prove you wrong. It's against the terms of service to post pictures of people or animals being killed or that have been killed **BUT** that wouldn’t include video clips from movies that portray historic events. There's a rather gruesome video clip from the miniseries War and Remembrance of the Babi Yar massacre I could post without being in violation of the terms of service since the killings are re-enacted and not actual.

Quote:
And maybe I'm getting sidetracked, anyway. Maybe it's not about guns at all but about a sense of insecurity, that makes someone feel the need to keep weapons in the home.

If it were only about insecurity I’d probably only have 5 or more likely less. As it is I have over 50 assorted. And there’s nothing insecure about security. We have enough of a crime issue here to warrant it.

Quote:
When I was a child, in the UK, it wasn't only that we didn't have guns, neither did we keep baseball bats beside the door, or samurai swords or crossbows.

There are people in the UK that have guns. It’s much more restrictive but not illegal.


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10 Mar 2018, 3:35 am

MrsPeel wrote:
Humour me, here?
I'm of British extraction, which means no exposure to guns whatsoever.

Just out of interest, and seeing as how guns seem to be a big thing right now, why do some people get so upset about the idea of having their gun(s) taken away?
I'm guessing it's related to why you own a gun in the first place...?


Liberty. The Czechs are the same. The Communists took them away. When they became a liberal republic, firearms became freely available again. It is considered an important freedom there.

They get told not to take them to the hospoda though. There are international prohibition signs with a cross over a graphic of a pistol outside many Prague bars.



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10 Mar 2018, 3:41 am

Raptor wrote:
There are people in the UK that have guns. It’s much more restrictive but not illegal.



Mainly shotguns are legal if you go through checks. No pistols. Pistols are illegal and are held by crims. Police aren't armed outside special units, airports, London hotspots, nuclear sites, military targets. The PSNI rank-and-file carry pistols. Apart from in Northern Ireland personal protection weapons are banned.



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10 Mar 2018, 3:43 am

MrsPeel wrote:
I'd call you out on that, Raptor, except that I'd prefer not to put images of massacres on my thread, thank you very much.


Common in Arab newspapers I believe.



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10 Mar 2018, 4:27 am

Farmers in the UK are allowed guns. I live out in the sticks here in England surrounded by farmland and can often hear guns going off late evening time, around dusk in the warmer months usually.