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Which Is Better?
a. Believe in Jesus. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
b. Act like Jesus. 36%  36%  [ 8 ]
c. Both a and b. 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
d. None of the above. 41%  41%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 22

jrjones9933
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14 Jul 2018, 9:26 am

I admit that various explanations of the Ananias story seem plausible, but they include a divine death penalty for lying.

I take more interest in the attitude of the apostles toward private property, but the religious right doesn't want to discuss the implication that Jesus was a Commie.


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14 Jul 2018, 9:49 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
Jesus allegedly wouldn't put up with lies, for the record.



Jesus was probably autistic.



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14 Jul 2018, 9:59 am

Fnord wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Jesus allegedly wouldn't put up with lies, for the record.
Sure, but how did he react to deceit?

Calling Peter "Satan" seems to be the worst he's done to a liar.

Matthew, the Publican wrote:
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. "Far be it from You, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to You!" But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
-- Matthew 16:21-23 (NIV)


I think it's pretty hard not to misinterpret some of the stuff in the bible. I have come to believe that much of what Jesus (Yeshua ( Joshua ( Josh ) ) ) is doing for much of it is speaking in the stead of the things he speaks about and speaking TO the 'in stead' in others rather than directly to them. So...it seems likely to me that he is not speaking to peter directly as Satan, but is rather speaking to the ideological personification of the evil in avoiding an inevitable confrontation with the political and social powers of the time. Basically...this or something like this was always going to be the end result of his work and it's the only way the whole thing will come to completion.

I've read it a bunch of times...it's the only thing that really makes sense...in most other contexts it just gets weird.



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14 Jul 2018, 10:20 am

Spectral Aurtist wrote:
I think it's pretty hard not to misinterpret some of the stuff in the bible. I have come to believe that much of what Jesus (Yeshua ( Joshua ( Josh ) ) ) is doing for much of it is speaking in the stead of the things he speaks about and speaking TO the 'in stead' in others rather than directly to them. So...it seems likely to me that he is not speaking to peter directly as Satan, but is rather speaking to the ideological personification of the evil in avoiding an inevitable confrontation with the political and social powers of the time. Basically...this or something like this was always going to be the end result of his work and it's the only way the whole thing will come to completion...
A very thought-filled answer; perhaps one of the best, if not the best answer so far.

Thank you.



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14 Jul 2018, 2:27 pm

Fnord wrote:
Personally, I believe that Jesus did exist. I also believe that his teachings were true, then and now...

Alcohol & Drugs: "What goes into a man's mouth does not defile him, but what comes out of his mouth, that defiles him" (Matthew 15:11 -- What a man says is what makes him sinful, not what he eats or drinks).

Religious Leaders: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean" (Matthew 23:27 -- We all have heard about preachers, priests, and televangelists who appear so pious in front of their congregations, and who live secret lives of sin and debauchery).

Sanctity of Religious Places: Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves (Matthew 21:12 -- This is the only recorded instance of Jesus committing an act of violence).

Sexual Immorality: "If anyone of you is without sin, let him cast the first stone" (John 8:7 -- Jesus had just saved the life of a woman caught in adultery ... whatever happened to the man she was with?).

Separation of Church & State: "Render unto Caeser what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's" (Matthew 22:21 -- Self-explanatory).

War: "All who draw the sword will die by the sword" (Matthew 25:52 -- Again, self-explanatory).

Wealth: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 19:29 -- A person who worships wealth already has his reward).

Against these, there can be no reasonable argument.


Well, considering I am still partially welcome here, I do disagree; there are a multitude of Reasonable
Arguments that can and will be made in almost all the Verses of the Bible for they are mostly Metaphor
and surely a far distance from Legalese; As even with Legalese we Hire Lawyers to Argue Laws 'this' or
'that' way.

As Far as what comes out of a Man's Mouth in what makes a Sinful Nature or not; it's easy
enough for 'Psychopaths' to lie every day and fool their Target Audiences as we see now
every day; True, there is much more to Soul that just what we speak that others hear now.

As far as the Story of Jesus goes, it is apparent he wasn't afraid to challenge Authority;
in this way he was more a Man than 'Mouse'; we are in agreement, at least in part, here.

As far as the Similar Story of Jesus goes he did not hold the Sabbath any more Holy
than any other Day to make Healing Happen; and he wasn't afraid for so-called
Unclean Folks to touch Fibers of his Clothes. It's true he wasn't afraid to Challenge
the so-called Sanctity then of Sacred Spaces; and this Discernment and Discussion
is Necessary for Loving Change still now. True, most anyone can and will be a Prophet in Light
for Change Still now; if they are not afraid to challenge the so-called Sanctity of Group Think.

Yes, not Drawing a Sword for those who do that also Die by the Sword is a Greater Truth;
but let's remember he was also reported to say he brings a Sword and not Peace and after
that we had onward Christian Soldiers and the Murder of Folks who believed Different. That too is
why the Legal System today doesn't look much like Poetry when it comes to rules that consistently work.

Rendering to Caesar what is his as far as Church and State goes surely must have limits as please
let's not forget, "Godwin's Laws", in all the ways that still comes now. Church at Core is Politics, too; there
is no way to totally separate that from Folks who Vote and go to Church. The evidence is all around us; it
just doesn't work well; so, Change must come in both places now for it to work in Real fuller effect at all.

Actually, According to Maslow's Pyramid of Human Needs for those who are too poor to Gain
Subsistence, the Path to Love in Ascendent Transcendent Nature of Us may be most difficult of all.
In other Words, Subsistence is required and a Certain level of Wealth in this regard now to even get to eat.
It's like the Tax Collectors who Jesus associated with; they may be rich but they can and will get in too, with
Enough Love at Hand in Heaven now within still in this Generation now; Yes, as always Poetry will be vague.

I must say as far as so-called Sexual Immorality goes the Story of Jesus Saving the Prostitute is one
of my Favorite parts; but as far as Lust goes, just looking at someone else with Lust as a Sin, just doesn't
make any common sense and feel at all. For it's True with Modern Science it is shown for sure still that
Lust and all the Associated Bio-Neuro-Chemicals that come in fuller with a Balance of Love in Oxytocin
ways too are a Major Source of all Human Creativity, Productivity, and even Social Cooperation too;
as let's not forget too, our Closest Front to Front Kissing Cousin the Bonobo; and how they deal with
Diffusing Aggression, Violence and Warring ways against Love now still; Yes, Free Lust is the Medicine
for them in every way that comes and that is the Beauty of Modern Porn too.

Smiles my Friend, Fnord, as i see it/this at least; most anything can and will be disputed with a
Reasonable Argument unless Censorship rules over Freedom now; as true, ignoring Truth in Light
is Freedom too. Thanks God for Copy and Paste as whatever inspires me truly doesn't go away..;)


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14 Jul 2018, 6:26 pm

Well, for whomever in the group to ask "Which is better" seems a little odd, or something. It seems the question should have been "Which is more important".

As someone of the Christian faith, I think it's IMPERATIVE to "believe in Jesus" because Jesus said, several times, that, basically, all is granted, through Him----that God will answer us / take care of us, and so-forth----that's why we end our prayers: "In Jesus' name, I pray, Amen".

I believe it is also important for us to "act like Jesus" (as in, being kind, caring, forgiving, etc.)----BUT, technically, I think "A" is the MOST important because it says in the Bible, that if we sin 1,000 times, we'll be forgiven 1,000 times, if we will only believe (or, something like that).





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14 Jul 2018, 6:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
Spectral Aurtist wrote:
I think it's pretty hard not to misinterpret some of the stuff in the bible. I have come to believe that much of what Jesus (Yeshua ( Joshua ( Josh ) ) ) is doing for much of it is speaking in the stead of the things he speaks about and speaking TO the 'in stead' in others rather than directly to them. So...it seems likely to me that he is not speaking to peter directly as Satan, but is rather speaking to the ideological personification of the evil in avoiding an inevitable confrontation with the political and social powers of the time. Basically...this or something like this was always going to be the end result of his work and it's the only way the whole thing will come to completion...
A very thought-filled answer; perhaps one of the best, if not the best answer so far.

Thank you.



I am the thought filled answer! no good answer comes from anyplace but me. Whoever seeks me will find me.
(if Josh can do it so can I)