Could Trump lose in a Clement Attlee Styled landslide?

Post Reply New Topic

I didn't say Europe was socialist. Socialism is the means of production being owned socially either by the workers or the state. Democratic socialists of America want socialism, they want to abolish profit. You are not "slaves" to corporations, there is corruption of course but government taking over companies would give the corrupt elite an absolute monopoly.

1. The link you sent doesn't even state the word "property right." Being against capitalism is not the same as wanting to take a company away from someone. As said, show where anyone literally says a company should be taken away (a company, not the isolated privatized prison/detention center debate).

2. The first case reads as though it is self rather than forced segregation (which the right is seeking to impose (forced segregation) on the lgbtq community), the second one would be wrong but also checked and it was only one college out of thousands (doesn't make it right, but it still shows the right literally has to reach into a haystack to try to find "leftist aims of segregation"). However, it is common sense that forced-segregation is worse than self-segregation especially when it is governmentally endorsed and enforced. Your examples (black safe spaces/white free days) (1) aren't governmentally based - in the states colleges are private institutions (I thought you were for company rights?), (2) affirmative action could be said to be discrimination however it doesn't fit into the definition of segregation; also, even with that, it doesn't come close to the government regulated discrimination republicans have been pushing on minorities for years.

3. Those boys didn't choose to be born in the wrong body, to which you'll likely scream fake-science. Do you honestly think they "choose" to be a way that could cost them being exiled from their families and likely killed by a bigot? On second thought - I know you'll say yes.

ADDING:

Here's the thing, I'll fold on trans bathroom by saying "don't force girls to have trans girls in their bathroom, open up a new bathroom since it can be discrimination against women - new bathroom since it is still dangerous and could invite rape." Many right-wingers will never be able to admit that making abortion illegal though is discrimination against women despite the majority of women (Democrats and Republicans alike) saying that it is.

Since I know it'll likely get lost, here's what right wingers think about freedom of speech or the first amendment.

Here are statistics though:

More Democrats are for a free press. Most Republicans believe the press shouldn't have the right to criticize the government.

More Democrats are for the right to peaceful assembly. More than half of right-wingers would agree although less.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/03/02/ ... mocracy_3/

Literally right-wingers were polled on the first amendment and they significantly showed that they were against it.

(In addition, since there's no statistical data on the following, my subjective account could be rare - I have seen right wingers call for Islam to be banned as a religion in the states; this would go against "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion")

To recap:

FIRST AMENDMENT: CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLY, and TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES (criticize political leaders).

Right-Wingers have been polled and they showed that they don't align with the First (free speech) Amendment.

Off-topic, but:

I should add though it's not surprising that right-wingers in the states wouldn't recognize what the First Amendment says (or that they were polled about it in question form) - they couldn't recognize the Declaration of Independence either.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/07/05/npr-tweeted-declaration-independence-some-people-got-angry/451112001/

You definitely implied it. The US economic system is the farthest thing from socialism right now. To imply that Americans not voting for Trump or the Republicans is a vote for socialism is rather.... I can't even say the word.

People like you help the corrupt elite by persuading morons to stop the government from doing its job of restraining the power of the elite ownership class. The system is becoming so lopsided that another 2008-style crash is almost inevitable. Only this time I don't think the people will just lay down and accept it when laid-off workers are dumped out of their homes and onto the street as banks and executives are bailed out. I'm not in favor of a "dictatorship of the proletariat" style socialism, but maybe the ultra-wealthy need at least a fear of violent revolution to persuade them to actually pay workers. Productivity has outpaced wages for the last four decades and now rent and housing costs are rising to the people where normal people can barely afford to live.

No I just stated Americans (democrats included) value freedom far more than Europeans, freedom isn't even talked about in mainstream politics in the UK.

What do you mean restrain the power of the elite ownership class? Due to corruption they get most of their power through the government, they want more regulations they want more taxes as long as they get exemptions and loopholes they want to kill their competition.

Production has outpaced wages mostly because of technological advances.

The topic of this discussion is Trump and Republicans losing. What is the point of bringing up the “red card” if not to imply that a vote for democrats or any kind of progress at all is a vote for communism? I find it that pretty ridiculous coming from someone whose home country has evil “socialist” healthcare. If you hate social democracy so much why don’t you get rid of your NHS? Why don’t you have any parties or MPs campaigning on a private for-profit health insurance system like here in the US?

This is a quote from their website " We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them."

I am not in favour of private groups being allowed to racial segregate especially when they receive government money.

People with gender dysphoria do not choose to have that condition, it doesn't mean they are actually girls or that they are "likely to be killed by a bigot".

This may have something to do with who was in power at the time but whilst its lower than I would expect on both sides its still much higher than it would be here in Europe.

1. Then yeah, that would be far left and also taking it that far would be fringe left.

2. So, you'd be against institutions banning lgbtq people service due to their sexuality? For instance adoption agencies that are aiming to ban lgbtq people from adopting children. Thus far, the only time you've shown concern over discrimination or segregation is when white straight people are targeted (which is very rare in comparison to minorities being targeted) by the government and private institutions.

Here's one of your major contradictions. I have seen you repeatedly call Christianity "evil" - you are aware that today Republicans are basically the extremist "Christian" political party looking to get rid of the divide between church and state, right? Making extremist Christian tenants law?

3. Actually, yes they do get killed by bigots. Here is a list of all of the trans people killed in 2017:

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/20 ... 7#slide-22



I have shown statistics, so - present yours.

Thing is, since the left is MOSTLY minorities in the states - the left values freedom, the right only values being colonizers and oppressing everyone who isn’t a white/straight/cis/non-immigrant/non-disabled/Christian male.

If right wing actually stood for “freedom” - more minorities would vote Republican instead of Democrats basically having to be the tent party for ALL minority groups seeking refuge from Confederate ideology. If not for that ideology, more minorities would be voting for Republicans rather than staying away in mass.

Confederate ideology that the Republican party has been tied to ever since the 70s/80s is anything but freedom.

Hell, the Confederates are still angry that they lost their war to keep their slaves as seen in their odd devotion to the Confederate flag and yearning for another civil war. The ideology of these states (no offense to the sane people in these states) hasn't changed since the old days.

4. The United States is a land of stark contrasts. It is one of the world’s wealthiest societies, a global leader in many areas, and a land of unsurpassed technological and other forms of innovation. Its corporations are global trendsetters, its civil society is vibrant and sophisticated and its higher education system leads the world. But its immense wealth and expertise stand in shocking contrast with the conditions in which vast numbers of its citizens live. About 40 million live in poverty, 18.5 million in extreme poverty, and 5.3 million live in Third World conditions of absolute poverty.1 It has the highest youth poverty rate in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), and the highest infant mortality rates among comparable OECD States. Its citizens live shorter and sicker lives compared to those living in all other rich democracies, eradicable tropical diseases are increasingly prevalent, and it has the world’s highest incarceration rate, one of the lowest levels of voter registrations in among OECD countries and the highest obesity levels in the developed world.

5. The United States has the highest rate of income inequality among Western countries.1 The $1.5 trillion in tax cuts in December 2017 overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and worsened inequality. The consequences of neglecting poverty and promoting inequality are clear. The United States has one of the highest poverty and inequality levels among the OECD countries, and the Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks it 18th out of 21 wealthy countries in terms of labour markets, poverty rates, safety nets, wealth inequality and economic mobility. But in 2018 the United States had over 25 per cent of the world’s 2,208 billionaires.2 There is thus a dramatic contrast between the immense wealth of the few and the squalor and deprivation in which vast numbers of Americans exist. For almost five decades the overall policy response has been neglectful at best, but the policies pursued over the past year seem deliberately designed to remove basic protections from the poorest, punish those who are not in employment and make even basic health care into a privilege to be earned rather than a right of citizenship.

I would be against gays being discriminated against absolutely.

Are republicans seriously going to impose religious law on the US is that a real threat? Trump doesn't seem very religious to me.

A tiny percentage of Trans people being killed does not mean its likely they will be killed.

The fact that Europeans tolerate or even support laws against speech show we value it less than Americans.

Right now the Right Wing is pushing for LGBTQ to get discriminated against since to them we're sinners. It is literally why they are celebrating gaining power in the Supreme Court and many are praying right now to overturn equal marriage rights.

This is also their foundation about abortion - to them, the chief objective is to "stop sinful behavior."

As per how religious Trump is - let's just say in these regards the states are f-ed. Christianity has let go of WWJD a long time ago in the states and has become... something strange and sinister. The most recent example is Roy Moore, a sexual predator who believed God would stand by his side so that he can cleanse the country of the carnage brought by the states allowing lgbtq people to get married. I wish I wasn't being serious, but those are the classic right-wingers in the states.

Trump, by most worldly standards (I would hope), isn't religious - but he is regarded to be by the religious extremists in the states. Here is a trailer for a Trump film that is coming out - about a religious prophecy that God would send Trump to "set everything right" - there was a book and now there's a film (not a documentary, they literally made one of their religious films about him).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZGIvLQD9I

I wish I was joking, I truly do.

And here is a trailer for the disturbing documentary 'Jesus Camp' about right-wingers looking to make Christianity the law of the land:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYFRmNuz9k

If it was up to many of them, Pence would be President - but they're really happy that "God sent them Trump."

1. They view the "death of the babies" as being sinful - not sex as being sinful. 'Jesus Camp' dives into this a lot. I find it impossible to describe this to anyone overseas - which I find to be a relief - because the right has twisted religion to the point where it's barely recognizable. I once heard a preacher label the right-wing form of Christianity as being akin to Satanism that's how extreme they have become in the states.

2. As an LGBTQ person it is sickening and revolting to think people actually believe Trump is for us because he waved our flag around.

Since he took office:
1) Hired electric shocker Pence as his vice president
2) Hosted numerous anti-lgbtq groups
3) Is on record arguing that federal civil law does not, should not, protect lgbtq workers
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/07/26/trump_administration_argues_federal_law_doesn_t_protect_gay_employees.html
4) Favored the Supreme Court cake case to turn against lgbtq rights
5) Supported and advertised Roy Moore who blames all the wrongs in the countries come from us LGBTQ being able to get married

So no, you don't get to wave our flag around say "I'm for you" while stabbing us repeatedly in the back. It doesn't work that way.

Eighty percent of white evangelicals voted for and, by and large, continue to support President Trump. To almost everyone else in America, this seems like a fundamental contradiction. But to Trump’s faithful, it is Providence at work in human history. They believe God is making America great again through an imperfect human agent. And like any true believers, they will not be moved.