Has this transgender movement gotten out of hand?

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Yeah I'm a guy. But I feel that the example you provided is different cause being forced to become a different gender at my adult age now, is completely different than being born with it.

If I was born as a woman, than I would have time to adapt into it as I grow. Having a gender change forced upon me in my 30s, is completely different cause I was living as something different before, compared to being born with it.

An adult man being forced to have his penis cut off against his will, and then replaced with a vagina against his will, is completely different than being born with a complete female body in the first place.

So, simply put, you wouldn't want to be a woman because you're a man.

The examples are extremely different. The aim is establishing empathy.

With that said, the out of body notion of what that would be like is nearly the same exact one trans people face - just a lot worse for trans people because for them it isn't existential.

Oh okay. When you say it isn't existential, what do you mean by existential, in that context?

Most people on WP are here because they are connected to Autism and neurodiversity. Although science cannot yet explain with absolute precision the exact genetic and early developmental conditions that lead to Autism, we do know that the behavioral traits associated with it are the result of the brain being wired a bit differently than in NTs. There are lots of threads on here discussing the lack of respect and assumptions of normativity that make life extra difficult for those who are ND.

How is the situation with gender identity (and sexual orientation for that matter) any different? Feeling like one was born in the wrong gender or feeling sexual attraction toward people of the same sex almost certainly arises in part because of minor differences in the brain. Those differences are the result of specific genetic alleles and/or early developmental experiences. From this perspective, one can arguably make a case that at least some LGBTQ individuals should be considered ND just by virtue of being LGBTQ. Just because a person got XX or XY genes doesn’t mean their brain wired itself to be totally typical of XX or XY, respectively.

Telling a trans individual that they should see a therapist and just be happy with their genetic XX or XY sex is no different than an NT telling an Autistic to just stop stimming or to look people in the eye. After all, per the logic of your argument, an Autistic person has had a lifetime of being in an NT culture to learn to get used to these things.

Okay thanks, I see your point there.

I went to therapy for my issues, including autism issues, so maybe I got to thinking that therapy is a simple solution to mental dilemmas, when maybe it is not all the time.

So when it comes to transgender to help me understand it, if a person is born with one gender, but feels they should be another, why is that? Where is the why in why they feel they should be a different gender, or what causes that?

You can only think about it because it isn't an experience you are dealing with.

As a bi guy, while I can try to understand straight people - it's only existential because I can only think about what it might be like for straight guy rather than actually knowing.

Trans issues are only existential for me. But, I'd say I understand it from the point of view that a lot of the "arguments" people bring against them - they've brought against me, albeit with slight word changes, for liking guys.

Oh ok I see, thanks.

What is it that is causing the issue though? Like if a person was born a man for example, but desired to be a woman, where is the 'why' in why they are desiring it?

Is it cause they are attracted to men, and feel they should be a woman for the man? It cause they are wanting a certain social, or economical status, that they feel they cannot get as a man, compared to being a woman, or vice versa.

I just don't know the 'why', in order to understand it.

Simply put, their brain is different. A trans woman's brain is more like a woman's brain than a man's brain. Nobody knows why that happened. But, they are literally women trapped in a man's body because their brain doesn't match up with their outside.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... der-brain/

"Male and female brains are, on average, slightly different in structure, although there is tremendous individual variability. Several studies have looked for signs that transgender people have brains more similar to their experienced gender.

Their results, published in 2013, showed that even before treatment the brain structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced gender than those of their natal gender."

Nobody knows where the soul is (if they want to get religious with it) or what makes us who we are - but, it has a lot to do with our brain if not everything.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 22 Aug 2018, 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Trans people can be homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, etc just like cis people can.

Oh okay, but if a transgender man's brain for example is more like a woman's brain, in what ways exactly?

It is likely that the question of male/female/other brains will have a very similar answer to the question of what is the difference between autistic/neurodiverse/neurotypical thinking.

There are people who studied neuroscience in school and got their degrees that would like to study this, but because there is no money to be made, nobody wants to fund this sort of research. But there is funding for research that leads to drugs being advertised on the 6 o'clock news.

You're asking for questions scientists don't have the answer to for anyone cis or trans.

What it does show is that even prior to transition, where it counts trans people are more akin to the gender they experience themselves as rather than the one they look like. Brains dictate who we are more than genitals do.

Okay but don't transgender people have some idea why they feel that way? I mean how can they know they have an issue, if they don't know what that issue is, or where it is coming from?

I mean if it's not sexual orientation thing with the brain, then what is it about the brain that is telling them they have the wrong brain?

Last edited by ironpony on 22 Aug 2018, 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In short: trans women relate more to the experiences and lives women lead more than the experiences and lives that men lead.

For long: this is where youtube is your friend and they (trans people) can describe it more accurately in ways that I can't.

Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 22 Aug 2018, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Here is some neuroscience research ...

"Using vasoactive intestinal polypeptide and somatostatin immunocytochemical staining as markers, we found that the BSTc was larger and contains more neurons in men than in women"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11826131

BSTc = central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis

This neuroscience professor references this research ...to explain that neurons in BSTc is a reliable why to determine gender of a human brain, and trans people match the gender they say they are ...

Oh okay. What experiences particularly?