For those who say men shouldn't be saying abortion is wrong

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Yes, case closed. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if a relationship is worth continuing, but disagreement on whether or not to have kids should be a pretty obvious one. Once you figure that out, you move on and find a partner who is more compatible.

Hey Fnord.

Why? And what makes these facts?

Why should he be able to use her body in any way without her consent?

I could care less if someone says abortion is wrong, I mean they are entitled to their opinion even if I don't like it. However, they certainly should not have any say in whether or not I get an abortion.

I do not want children, so if I got pregnant yes I would get an abortion ASAP. Not only do I not want children but I am in no position to be incapacitated by pregnancy for 9 months, I doubt I could afford pregnancy medical treatment and I wouldn't even be able to afford to keep the resulting baby I'd have to give it away for adoption or whatever.

Seems better to put a stop to the whole thing via abortion before there is a baby to speak of.

But yes people can think its wrong, I just don't think they should be able to use that to dictate other peoples choices. They can certainly choose not to get an abortion, and discuss the topic of children with any potential relationship partners to make sure they are on board with having a baby if pregnancy occurs.

I'd think if a guy wants a kid with his girlfriend, he might discuss that with her....rather than say get her pregnant, and then demand that she have a baby. If he really wants a baby and she doesn't, then perhaps its not a relationship that is meant to work.

It takes quite a while for a fertilized egg to become a child. Do you eat meat? Because the animals that they kill for meat are more sentient beings than embryos and fetus's that haven't developed into a baby yet. Just FYI.

Seriously?

Are you kidding? Or do you really believe that women are nothing more than reproductive slaves for men to use, abuse, and then kick to the curb? What the feck is wrong with you?

That's ... not much of an answer.



This is not the logical conclusion to not having total bodily autonomy.

You are very certain in your facts opinions, I just wanted know from where it came. Do you have anything else except illogical, emotional diatribe?

Do you have any proof that women do not own their own bodies? Or are you just trolling for emotional responses?

People are protected from having their bodies "invaded" by the Law of Tort. Under this aspect of the law, it is battery (and thus a criminal offense) to "invade" a person's body, or to remove something from it, without the person's consent or other lawful justification. Thus the law already predicates from the principal of self-ownership.

Now, YOU tell ME what law says that any man is the owner, in fact or in principle, of any woman's body and, by extension, her reproductive organs.

I don't make this argument at all, I argue the unborn baby has some claim to the mother's organs and to be unmolested during pregnancy. You have brought this male ownership non-argument into the discussion.



Why doesn't this apply to the unborn? To be scrambled to pieces and forcibly removed is surely battery?

My stance on abortion is that it absolutely should be a right granted to women who are carrying a rape baby or anything of that sort, and those who used protection that for whatever reason just didn't work, but I'm not in favour of people who were simply sexually irresponsible in multiple situations using abortion as a substitute for birth control. I think if you're adult enough to act irresponsibly in that fashion, you should be adult enough to accept the consequences, or at least learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again. And while the most obvious consequences of denying abortion are on women, men often don't walk away without a care in the world. They become financially shackled to a child that they may not even want for 18 years, but again if you're big enough to make irresponsible decisions, you should be big enough to deal with them yourself.

I would also add that when you're speaking with a pro-life person, they tend to believe that a zygote is more than just a cluster of cells, it's a potential person, and they equate aborting a zygote to denying someone's right to life. If you genuinely believe that abortion is akin to murder, it doesn't matter whether you're male or female, you're going to stick up for the rights of the zygote. Saying that a man should not be allowed to voice or hold that opinion, in an ideological sense, is basically akin to hearing your neighbour being brutally bashed and not calling the police because you believe you have no business in interfering with other people's lives. In that situation, nobody with any kind of moral integrity is going to shrug their shoulders and say "live and let live", and for pro-lifers the same principle applies.

I present that no one has any "rights" to my organs, not any fully formed person, or any Z/E/F.

If one wishes to prevent abortion, perhaps one should look to men as men are capable of creating many more babies than women. I propose that every male, upon turning 13, be given a vasectomy. When he is 18, he can be examined, and if he is found fit, he can have it reversed.

However, most people don't want to regulate men's bodies the way they want to regulate women's bodies. Just saying....

I agree, but pro-life people don't


Do you know how costly it would be to implement something like that though? Not to mention it's invasive and based on nothing that those men have done themselves, but only the possibility of something they could do. I wouldn't be opposed to inflicting sterility on those (men and women) whose sexual irresponsibility has resulted in three or more abortions, in situations where they failed to use protection or take any preemptive steps against the occurrence of pregnancy. I feel if you're offering consequence-free options to the sexually irresponsible, you are promoting sexual irresponsibility. My stance has nothing to do with the rights of a zygote and everything to do with reaping what you sew.

Exactly.

People will resist government regulations of men's fertility in a way they will not resist regulations of women's fertility.

Just to clarify, I think both are crap.

There is already a thread on this.

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=369697