Why do people assume the Democrats are socialists?

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Fnord
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14 Jun 2019, 9:03 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Fox News regularly reports it...
Sometimes, even Faux News gets it right.


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funeralxempire
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14 Jun 2019, 3:42 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So, are we including anyone who supports any form of mixed market economy as a socialist, or are we conceding that one can advocate for a mixed market economy and not genuinely qualify a socialist? ...
"We" are doing neither.
Why would the participants in a conversation have any interest in having a functional definition of the topic being discussed? The definition you provided, if anything, makes a strong case that the term socialism is utterly useless because it either lumps together pretty much every economy on earth, or it results in bickering over at what point exactly a mixed economy finally is close enough to count. Either way, it's a word that's been watered down to the point of being a meaningless sound.
"If you can't refute the facts, dismiss them as irrelevant." -- Attibuted to Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945
Let me know when and if you ever post some facts.
Read the 2nd post in this thread. I posted all of the necessary facts then, after which you showed up with nothing to contribute.


I sure saw a lot of opinions, but no facts. If you'd like to insist that most developed nations are socialist, feel free and I promise to not laugh louder than anyone else at you.


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Meistersinger
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14 Jun 2019, 4:40 pm

Almost 40 years ago, when I was a green undergraduate in music (I hadn’t made a decision at that point whether I wanted a degree in performance, music education or musicology), I took a survey course in political science in order to satisfy 1/5 of the requirements in Humanities and Social science (what a misnomer!). When the question was raised why most, if not all of Europe (save the USSR, which was Bolshevik and communist) went toward social democracy. The answer, according to this professor, was that post, WW II, Europe laid in complete ruins. After 2 Major ruinous wars, within a 20 year span, there was not much of anything left on the European continent. IIRC, the US, went back into semi-isolation after Germany, Italy, and Japan surrendered. Yes, there was the Marshall plan, but it really wasn’t enough to allay European suffering, IMNSHO.

Some political leader in the U.S., made the comment many decades ago, that government should be the solution of last resort. In addition, another professor I had, (IIRC, it was a music theory professor I had, who was a contemporary of Bela Bartok, that barely got out of Hungary with his life (he had the misfortune of stepping on a land mine, which nearly took his leg off), made the comment that the difference between Socialists and Communists were that Socialists took power via the Ballot Box, while the Communists took power at the end of a rifle.

In short, we might have socialized medicine and more government control that we have today IF WWII have had major battles happening on the continental USA, rather than the Hawaiian Islands (which was a US territory during WWII), the Philippines (also a US territory and protectorate) and Okinawa (ditto).

Anyhow, this is just my $.02US. Take it for what it’s worth (which isn’t much, in most people’s opinions of me).



Fnord
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14 Jun 2019, 5:10 pm

Q: How many Communists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Six. One to give a speech to inspire the laborers to believe in the State's glorious 5-year plan, two to stand guard over the decadent burned-out bulb, and the rest to plant potatoes to meet this year's wheat quota.

Q. How many Socialists does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Six. One to actually change the bulb, one to report on your 'traitorous' behavior for having allowed the State's bulb to burn out, one to write down the report on an official report document, one to file the report with the State Security Sub-Committee, and two more to arrest you at midnight and make you disappear.


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Hollywood_Guy
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14 Jun 2019, 7:43 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
This is something that more and more is beginning to annoy me. I keep here people on this chat, very nice but conservative people refer to the Democratic party as being an cabal of socialists, determined to bring what was tried and failed to Venezuela to America.

There is just a couple of problems in that. There is nothing in the platform of mainstream Democratic politicians who wield strong political power that indicates they support such a policy. Take for instance Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House or Chuck Schumer in the Senate the two most powerful democrats. Both of them oppose Medicare for all. As does the 2020 frontrunner, Joe Biden. When it comes to the rest of the developed world, there is a consensus around single payer healthcare yet no matter what you might say, the Democrats are far too right wing to ever accept it as a policy.

Now lets look at fiscal policy and the records left by the last two democratic presidents, Obama and Clinton. Obama cut taxes for lower and middle class families when coming into office, extending the Bush tax cuts, (Conservative policy). As for Clinton not only did he do similar policies but he cut benefits for Single mothers, the disabled and the most vulnerable in society.

Why then do people say that the Democrats are socialist, and not simply Republican lite? The legacy of Democratic policy for the past 10 years has been one of drone strikes, capitulation and conservative economics. There is nothing liberal in that.

But the Republicans feel they have to portray the Democrats as ideologues. But here is the simple truth, the Democrats do not have the backbone that is necessary to be the ideologues think we are. The party is simply too pathetic and weak.

And with that their is a multitude you can criticize the Democrats for. Racism for example is a tool within the Democratic party that is toyed with when necessary. It was Clinton who for instance helped extenuate the war on drugs and further mass incarceration. And we are not politically correct, Democrats VOTED to extend the Patriot Act, a measure which allowed for warrantless discriminatory spying and for in some cases the indefinite detention of foreign arrivals.

But for some reason, so many Conservatives being as unwitty as they are have to play the game of branding the party as far left as a talking point. That is not only dishonest, it is just a dumb line of attack. Attack the party on something else. Plenty of source material there.


I think this OP is extremely loaded, no offense. But here's the tricky thing, both party wings over here in the US are weak and pathetic