AOC cruises to primary win, looks set to waltz to reelection

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25 Jun 2020, 6:29 pm

I guess I'd add - you do know that there are people, on the left and center, who are trying to fix things in important ways and who aren't doing what they can to accelerate partisanship. There are all kinds of reasons to not like game theory first approaches to politics. Also if someone would, without a moment's hesitation, pick Gabbard over AOC as a representative given the choice that has zero to do with either one being a woman or being minority. One is clearly an adult and fully capable of thinking on her feet. AOC might be getting better, for her districts sake I'd hope so.

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25 Jun 2020, 6:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Would it be fair to say that disagreement is inherently sexist or racist?

I'm just trying to figure out if some threads might need a minimum commitment to entry in this case, like baptism or first communion. Maybe we could put a little round wafer in the header to let people know it's one of 'these'.

Disagreeing with her does not make one sexist or racist, not sure why people think that is a case. Although, plenty of people dislike her for those reasons.

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techstepgenr8tion
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25 Jun 2020, 6:34 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Reminds me of a recent comment where she endorsed a progressive person to primary an incumbent who was endorsed by other "elites" of the democratic party, and he complained about AOC acting like a dictator in deciding who gets elected, despite that being exactly the majority of the party are acting like in acting that even the people that betray the politics should keep the position regardless. That there is nothing wrong with supporting a progressive that will push for good policy over people that share AOC's progressive values over people who think they deserve it because they played the politics game.

Her making a list on the senators and representatives that have voted problematically is good, an effort to bring some change outside of her own effort.

I just don't like the idea of any of our institutions either turning to plutocracy or getting wrangled by populism. It's not like 'correct' is on one side and 'incorrect' is on the other, 'correct' is a tiny island or possibly a chain of tiny islands in an ocean of 'incorrect' and that's what hyper-partisanship completely misses.

Also - this makes me glad blech said something - it took all of a half hour for us to figure out that there are plenty of people who thoroughly disagree in their politics, sexism is completely unneeded to explain that.

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25 Jun 2020, 6:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not sure why it's a problem for progressives to prefer a party that represents their interests instead of one that's more interested in being the Republican Lite party. I would be disappointed if AOC didn't work to advance the interests of progressives over those of the Republican Lites.

I'm not the one making the case that disagreeing with her makes one sexist or racist, but like Brad says those are certainly among the reasons to dislike her, especially when one's dislike seems like a kneejerk reaction.

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25 Jun 2020, 6:39 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Apologies, my reading comprehension might be failing me.

funeralxempire wrote:

blech wrote:

So this is the thread where men with outdated views gather round to talk about a 30-year-old woman in a sexist way, blissfully unaware of how they're being sexist.

Careful, it isn't politically correct to call a spade a spade or a sexist a sexist on WP.

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25 Jun 2020, 6:41 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Apologies, my reading comprehension might be failing me.

funeralxempire wrote:

blech wrote:

So this is the thread where men with outdated views gather round to talk about a 30-year-old woman in a sexist way, blissfully unaware of how they're being sexist.

Careful, it isn't politically correct to call a spade a spade or a sexist a sexist on WP.

It's a joke about how the allegedly anti-PC crowd here are not at all opposed to political correctness just opposed to the status quo regarding what's viewed as politically correct changing.

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25 Jun 2020, 6:44 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

It's a joke about how the allegedly anti-PC crowd here are not at all opposed to political correctness just opposed to the status quo regarding what's viewed as politically correct changing.

That's a brain teaser. I'll have to read it a few times through the evening and see if I can unpack it.

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25 Jun 2020, 7:55 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It's a joke about how the allegedly anti-PC crowd here are not at all opposed to political correctness just opposed to the status quo regarding what's viewed as politically correct changing.

That's a brain teaser. I'll have to read it a few times through the evening and see if I can unpack it.

blech was the target audience and her post was a fair description of many of the posts in this thread prior to her making that observation. Sometimes these sorts of reasonable observations invite meltdowns from those having their behaviour called out.

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25 Jun 2020, 8:09 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

I think her comment sailed between on one hand people who are young enough to be on their p's and q's in their own heads about who they are and what they want to communicate on one hand - who it didn't apply to, and then older members making some 1960's noises who aren't going to care because it's not their world anymore and they're not interested in changing. I had to go back to the first and second page and scroll to get any inkling of who she could be talking about. I responded the way I did because it just didn't strike me as accurate, a bit more a cudgel got carelessly thrown in the room by a pedestrian on the run, I thought wolfram's response was relatively on target and I was surprised to see someone draw it out further.

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25 Jun 2020, 8:22 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

I'm guessing you don't get out that much. I've known a number of people in the country (left and right) who were similar in behaviour to him.

I did not say that there are genuine people who act like that, just that Abbott as a politician with his background, his whole Aussie act is a LARP (Live Action Role Play), and the first thing he hears about a pensioner having to work for a sex line to make ends meet was to wink. Is that the sort of great character you like?

I assume that you have met him, then, and so can confirm that this is not his normal behaviour\mannerisms\whatever that permits you to claim his act is a LARP, and not his normal way of acting? Alternatively, as seems more likely, your claims of it being a LARP would reflect the fact that you do not like of his mannersims\way of speeking\etc., but cannot explain why: There is nothing wrong with this, unlike falsely assigning motives\actions to another, which is disrespectful both to the person having the motives assigned to them and to the person(s) to who you make the claim.

With regards to the second part: Have you considered that he may have thought that it was a joke at the time?

Bradleigh wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

Well, I could have gone with contemptuous or vitriolic, but they felt too harsh, and didn't seem to accurately describe my opinion.

If you feel that you need to search for and complain about "gender bias" in another person's words (which in itself is a subjective judgement), the very least you could do would be to put forward some suggestions that you feel could be approriate alternatives, in order for me to see if any of them would substitute. Lacking this input (and being unable to find a suitable substitute), I still believe that abrasive is the most appropriate term to use in this case.

Jesus, can’t any of you understand basic behavioural analysis. I already said using a different word would be pointless, saying that women are abrasive is just a symptom of actual gender bias, a common word used that by people that seem to express such bias. I can’t put forward a suggestion of what you should say that is appropriate, rather than maybe you yourself look at your own attitude for why you might think a strong woman or one of power is abrasive.

Maybe you don’t actually even have problems with gender bias, then that would be good for you, but since you think that Tony Abbott is a good guy, a man who when trying to make a comment to women was about housewives and ironing, I think that it could be worth a shot.

So, to make a claim, based on my observations of her behaviour\actions\presentation style through the use of word "A" which I believe to be an accurate descriptor for it apparently shows "gender bias" in your opinion. Indicating several other words which had been considered by myself, but while similar in meaning were too "harsh" and over-emphasised the issues (as I saw them), results in a statement that "using other words would be pointless", followed by further claims of "gender bias" and a veiled insinuation of sexism.

It would be helpful for you to be able to provide a "non-biased" suggestion as to how I should be describing this person and their actions\presentation style, to see if I agreed with this (or if not, why), before making these sorts of attacks, instead of throwing out accusations that are without basis. Otherwise, this just looks like an attack on myself in order to silence an opinion with which you disagree.

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25 Jun 2020, 9:11 pm

Brictoria wrote:

With regards to the second part: Have you considered that he may have thought that it was a joke at the time?

Are you trying to defend winkgate? This is why I think that you might have some underlying sexist views, defending Abbott who essentially appointed himself the minister for women like he considered himself to know best their plight.

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25 Jun 2020, 9:26 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

With regards to the second part: Have you considered that he may have thought that it was a joke at the time?

I am starting to get the opinion that you do not like the person...And there is nothing wrong with that. Projecting belliefs you assume he has (or WANT him to have in order to justify your opinion of him) onto myself, however does feel like an attack.

In simple terms, he heard something, and based on the information he had and a belief that it was a joke, he responded accordingly.

Trying to blow it up into a huge issue, over a misunderstanding, is the type of action that is likely to cause people to question the motives of the people doing this, and actually leads to distrust\resentment in the community. Making claims such as that a person who has a different opinion to yourself must have "underlying sexist views", then becomes seen as a personal attack designed to silence that person.

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25 Jun 2020, 9:59 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Why would he have thought that it was a joke, that a pensioner said that she had to work for a sex line, and why would that mean he would wink to the man in front of him?

Abbott super has sexist views, that is why the first female prime minster did a whole a speech about him being a sexist. This is not exactly a controversial opinion.

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25 Jun 2020, 11:13 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Brictoria wrote:

Why would he have thought that it was a joke, that a pensioner said that she had to work for a sex line, and why would that mean he would wink to the man in front of him?

And what information would he have had available to make him believe that it wasn't? Hearing something like that is not an everyday occurence, and the fact that it was so far from what a person would normally expect, that it is likely that believed it was a joke: How many times before, or since, have you heard other pensioners saying something like that?

Bradleigh wrote:

Abbott super has sexist views, that is why the first female prime minster did a whole a speech about him being a sexist. This is not exactly a controversial opinion.

He has views which some subjectively perceive as sexist, without bothering to try and find out the reasoning for the views, nor clarify that what they THINK his views are is in fact accurate.

As to that speach: On reading it, is simply an aggressive attack on a person with whom she disagrees, containing her interpretations and "selected lines" to try and improve her standing.

At this point, I can see that there is no point trying to continue this discussion, as too much "inconvenient" information which I have posted has been getting passed over in favor of searching for and claiming "sexism" where it never existed.

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26 Jun 2020, 12:09 am

Brictoria wrote:

I am not playing a game with imagining that there could have been a world that it was just a joke, Abbott's reaction regardless would have been inappropriate and regardless were insight into the way he thinks.

Brictoria wrote:

People with sexist views rarely are aware that they are sexist, to them they are just being realists to things like biological differences and say it is all in good fun, without understanding what their underlying problems may be. And I a feel like I have pretty good idea of what his reasoning is, such as that his education was at boy only religious schools, was a trainee priest, and has an old conservative view of differences between men and women as working husbands and housewives.

Most people hold some level of sexism, it can take some working on it to do better, but if you still think that the way Abbott acted in the past was fine, you need to reassess why you might have certain instinctual reactions to women.

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26 Jun 2020, 12:47 am

Just a Quick Note:
There's A Reason,
Typically, Why the Tallest Male
Candidate in Most Cases Wins in An Election And
it is in Accordance With Sexual Dimorphism THAT'S REAL.

We Need a Little Variety;
And my Wife Agrees 'AOC' is 'Hot';
The Younger Generations aren't all as hung-up
As Much about Sexual Dimorphism; at least in my
Friendly Dancing Relations with Thousands of That Younger Generation in Large Sample Case
Study Way. Albeit All Younger Than 'AOC' Now; Truly Free Spirits and Refreshing they are, overall.

i am much
Much More Conservative
In This Way of
'Enhancing' Sexual Dimorphism.

And Woman Are Much More
Aggressive than i am Now;
And More Aggressive, overall,
than Men Were in the 70's and 80's;
At Least the Younger Generations Raised on FULL Freedom.

'AOC' Has As Much 'Political Balls' as Any Male Candidate and i Love it;

Days are Changing, Rapidly; And People Are Much Different in the Younger Generations.

NO Way in 'Hell', the Republican Party is going to amount to Anything After the Trump Fiasco;
And coming Changes from the Younger Generations in More Open Minded Ways of Seeing EVERYTHING, OVERALL.

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