Should Christians have sex?

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I beg to differ. You asked for a concession. Or should I say confession? As in - sign this or prepare for the stake.

Ala Joan of Arc

Well, first of all, God only bet on what He knew was in Job's heart. He knew that, once all the outer layers of Job's great comfort were peeled away, the truth -- the gold of his heart would show -- and God knew what that truth was. So, Job's soul was never on the line (as was analogized in your poker scenario) -- it was a spiritual decision for Job, either with or without the physical suffering; the decision would have been the same either way. Deep inside, we all either love God or we hate Him -- it doesn't really matter how much or how little crap we're put through; we've already made our spiritual decision. In other words, there are some who want to serve God, but haven't yet heard how.

And, the poker thing would be worse morally for at least these 2 reasons: 1) You'd be an equal to the person whose allegiance you're betting on, and 2) you wouldn't know the outcome in advance. And again, God wasn't going to lose Job to Satan in the bet -- and not just because He knew the future, but because Job's allegiance was his free spiritual choice the entire time. Even though his sufferings caused him to complain very bitterly before God, the story says he still never sinned before God.

Last edited by Ragtime on 23 Jul 2007, 9:03 am, edited 5 times in total.

TMI

GMWAS

I don't even have any matches... But seriously, you need to see the Catholic leaders in regards to stake burning -- me and mine never did that.

My question was asking if you agree. Merriam-Webster's definition of concede: "to accept as true, valid, or accurate." (Yes, you knew that, but why should I not enjoy spelling it out for you like a three-year-old, when you ridiculously pretend you don't get it?)

Last edited by Ragtime on 23 Jul 2007, 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.

HelloHello, GoodbyeGoodbye.

Now what was that about conceding? You've just proved my point.

Hey, I always wanted to be the random comment generator! How come you get to be, so many comments in a row??

Last edited by Ragtime on 23 Jul 2007, 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was thinking Matthew 11:15 would fit on this list maybe, "Let anyone with ears listen!" I mean there are people who will not hear what you are saying no matter how clearly you say it because they don't want to hear it.

There is nothing random in the fact that you ignore the points i make that pull holes in your argument?

Let me remind you:

I read them already, and they didn't make any sense. But if you want a response:

now that's a nice picture, that other one gave me nightmares.....very disturbing.....

Well, I never took an actual poll, but at least half the people who remarked on the old one liked it. TheMachine1 said he liked it 'cause it looks like him. I changed it about a week ago.

Ragtime wrote:

You and yours have always done this and continue to do it.

Same tactics, different words.

"Sign on the dotted line, concede that my belief is the only belief worth believing, or burn in hell.'

How is that any different than Joan of Arc's fate?

Your tactics are a form of terrorism.

A stink bug by any other name is still a stink bug.

It's so tedious having to spoon feed you, Ragtime, while you fail, time and again, to get the point.

It's like your head is in a vice, and you refuse to let anyone lessen the pressure by even the slightest degree, because you might actually have to think for yourself, instead of repeating again, and again and again, the same ignoble sentiments.

Suppose you were about to drown. And a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu, or a Jew, or a Catholic, or an Atheist, threw you a life saver. Would you refuse it because it did not come from the God of your choice? Or would you take it, thank whomever it was for saving your life, and then be arrogant enough to condemn him to hell because he would not concede to your beliefs?

O-kay...
Stake burnings were conducted by Catholics, as directly ordered by popes over a period of 600 years. That's one itty-bitty problem I have with their doctrines. I am not, nor have I ever been Catholic. And I would be most clearly violating my Bible if I ever took part in such practices: "Do violence to no man", said John the Baptist in Luke 3:14.

Nope, I simply asked you if the Bible's prescribed method of salvation, as in John 3:16, is difficult for us to do. It's a single verse, which holds the key to eternal life in Heaven with our loved ones and creator.

Well, see, one is a simple question, whereas the other is a human barbeque. Some people might see a difference. ^_^

Oh noes! Tactics, eh? Ya, it's pretty insidious of me to want you to go to Heaven...shame on me!

The postman always rings twice.

This would be tedious -- if it wasn't so much fun!

Who says only Christians can throw Christians life savers? You're pretty nutty.

I don't condemn anyone to Hell; that's not my job, that's theirs.
But just so you know I'm not making up Gospel/Salvation doctrine: "And he (Jesus) said to them, 'Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned'" (Mark 16:15-16).
So, I guess your argument is really with the Bible, and, in this case, with Jesus directly.

Ragtime. I now see that you play dirty. You go back and add comments to your posts after the fact, and change words to make the argument appear different than it was at the time of original posting. I have never debated with anyone that uses such underhanded practices and have now lost my last shred of respect for you. Have you no integrity?

Matthew Chapter 11, verses 12-14 and 20 & 21

And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry.

And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

And Jesus answered and said unto it, "No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever." And his disciples heard it.

And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

Ragtime, my business with you is now finished. In my mind you have withered away. To your relief and delight I am sure.

Ragtime,
Although I try to give every human being the benfit of the doubt, I must agree with cosmiccat and the others.

Although I haven't been here long almost every post I've seen of yours seems to follow the same themes of behaviour.
You constantly seem to take threads that are for basic or in depth discussion about things, particularly on the philosophy/religeon forums, and sabbotage them by instigateing fairly unrelated debates with your 'preaching of the gospel'.
I've found consistant themes of self-importance, self-righteousness, and a complete disregard for others opinions in your posts.
Even you must know that this approach to preaching, since you seem so bent on doing that no matter what, doesn't save or convert anyone. In fact it only serves as a conduit for people to feel better about themselves in their 'holliness' (read: deadly sin of pride).
Its simply ego strokeing and psychological masturbation at its worst.

If you are in fact concerned with saveing people rather than driveing them away and makeing yourself feel like your on another level in the process, remember YOU are a representative of your faith.
You catch more flies with honey and all that. When people think of christians do you want them to think of nice, cool people or do you want them to think of you being a jerk to them on a forum combined with a bunch of posts detailing a "woe is me" drama play about how the christian life is hard because your approach to preaching is dickish and alienates you from others rather than converting them like you claim you should be doing. (that was a long senteance)

I personally find your belief structure reprehensible. What with the "if you don't believe as I do your goin to hell!"
That and people who do things like dismiss evolution based on 'proof' in scripture.
Your all basically takeing a big dump ontop of all the great thinkers and philosphers of the abrahamic religeon (mostly from the dark ages).
Look up Moses Maimomedes, why don't you. Or the Doctrine of double truths. Or any of the other thoughts and thinkers of Christianity, Jeudaism, and Islam who came up with wonderful reasonings.
The work of consolidateing faith and reason, the thought that there may be "many roads to one destination".
If you wanna go more modern with your philosophy read some of Kant's work, especially his reasoning on why you should believe in god. (spoiler: He said theres no proof it's just a good idea to have SOME guideing morality/philosophy in your life, and he was a christian!)

Basically I'm breaking it down to, I don't think people have a problem with you being a christian, I think they have a problem with your approach or even possibly YOU.
As for the whole "I'm going to hell" thing. Lets say your right about that, lets say I follow what I feel to be right because I am ultimately a product of my environment, my genetic structure, and possibly abit of holdover from the "Me" in my soul.
But ultimately because I never accepted your religeon, or your god who claims to be loveing but never gave it to me straight, only spoke in suspect ways such as through flawed and crass messengers such as yourself, or maybe not even hearing about him at all. Say after all that I go to hell despite being by all rights a wonderful human being who stuck to their morals and helped people as best they could.
Well you know what, if thats the kind of god thats in control of the universe he is an unjust, cruel, demented, and tyranical god. If I go to hell after that I will accept my eternal torment grudgeingly because ultimately I would not WANT to bow and scrape before such an evil tyrant in HIS heaven and although my martyrdom would mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, it would mean something to me because I would know that in this cruel, unforgiveing, and arbitrary god's univers you paint I stuck by my morals as best as a human could and that might give me some small comfort through eternity.

So thats my rant I hope you at least read it and reflect on it a little bit ragtime.