I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist

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IsabellaLinton
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20 May 2021, 9:27 pm

ironpony wrote:
I don't see how a woman being against abortion makes her sexist against women. That's like saying that a man who doesn't believe in vecectomies is sexist against men.



Having an opinion for or against abortion doesn't make a person sexist. ​ ^

This topic is the basis of all philosophy:
How is life started? When does it end? What is moral and just? What are the bounds of personal liberty? How do we ensure democracy for all citizens? What is justice?

Such topics have been debated since the beginning of time, by both men and women.

It's not a question of sexism unless a person believes that no member of one sex / gender should have the right to their opinion, their vote, or their democracy in a free society. I don't think anyone in this thread has said that.

You don't need a uterus to debate ethics about human life.

In keeping,

Do you have to be a murderer / bereaved victim, to have opinions about capital punishment?
Do you have to be disabled to write disability laws, or have opinions about them?
Do you have to be a teacher or student, to have opinions about education?
A dangerous driver or crash victim, to have opinions about road safety and drunk driving?
A rapist or rape victim to write assault law, or have opinions about legislation?

I believe that ultimately yes, it should be a woman's choice. It has to be, because she can self-terminate if restricted from proper medical care. It has to be her choice, but that doesn't mean I'm pro-women or anti-men, or anywhere in between. It means I'm realistic about the situation, and there can't be a middle ground where each parent gets an equal say. It's often unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. There's no half-way with human life.

In a free world everyone is allowed an opinion based on their moral compass. Those people are welcome to run for government. Those people are welcome to write laws for or against abortion if they are elected by their constituents as a reflection of democracy. The people who oppose their laws, either way, are also welcome to protest. Everyone is allowed an opinion. It would be undemocratic of me to criticise someone else's morality.

At the end of the day it seems we all agree that women ultimately deserve the right to choose.

We should also agree that people have a right to freedom of thought, without being labelled or shamed if their thoughts differ from the norm.


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funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 9:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh what do you mean if the outcome doesn't change? Do you mean if the abortion does not work?


Denying an inalienable right is denying an inalienable right no matter what the argument used to justify it.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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20 May 2021, 10:20 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s a matter of “control over one’s own body,” in many cases. A person’s right to do what she wants with her own body.

There's the thing, I'm not and never was my mother's body, my body has an entire set of chromosomes hers did not and still does not.

:arrow: Furthermore, as an unplanned pregnancy who could have been aborted I find it frighteningly odd that I have "no right" to speak about abortion because I "don't have a uterus" - EXCUSE ME, but I AM THE ONE who could have been aborted :!: :!: :!:


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funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 10:30 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s a matter of “control over one’s own body,” in many cases. A person’s right to do what she wants with her own body.

There's the thing, I'm not and never was my mother's body, my body has an entire set of chromosomes hers did not and still does not.

:arrow: Furthermore, as an unplanned pregnancy who could have been aborted I find it frighteningly odd that I have "no right" to speak about abortion because I "don't have a uterus" - EXCUSE ME, but I AM THE ONE who could have been aborted :!: :!: :!:


Hypothetically, do you feel you'd be entitled to force her to carry you to term against her will, or would you accept that she's entitled to make that decision?


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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20 May 2021, 10:34 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Hypothetically, do you feel you'd be entitled to force her to carry you to term against her will, or would you accept that she's entitled to make that decision?

Hypothetically, do you think I would be pleased if you suffocated to death from covid?


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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20 May 2021, 10:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Hypothetically, do you feel you'd be entitled to force her to carry you to term against her will, or would you accept that she's entitled to make that decision?

The deeper question here is why do you want me to be dead, what did I ever do to you?


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funeralxempire
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20 May 2021, 10:46 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Hypothetically, do you feel you'd be entitled to force her to carry you to term against her will, or would you accept that she's entitled to make that decision?

The deeper question here is why do you want me to be dead, what did I ever do to you?


I don't want you dead and your deflection utterly misses the point.

Do you think your mom should be forced to carry a pregnancy against her wishes?


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kraftiekortie
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20 May 2021, 10:49 pm

All this is why we should have the “morning after pill” more available.



ironpony
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20 May 2021, 11:13 pm

Well I know two women who are against abortion, and I don't think they are sexist to their own gender because of it, I think it's just their opinion, or so I thought.



cyberdad
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20 May 2021, 11:13 pm

salad wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
salad wrote:
Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.[/color]


In salad's culture women don't necessarily get to decide that.


Yes in Palestinian society women have less rights than men which I condemn. However its deeply offensive and racist of you to always take low blows at me because of flaws in my family's culture and assume just because my family's culture has a view it necessarily reflects mine. I never explicitly condemned abortion on my thread but only stated that calling those who oppose abortion sexist is not necessarily correct. My views on abortion are my own and not the imposition of a culture I reject most of.


Is this "low blow" addressed to me or Fnord?



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20 May 2021, 11:15 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Having an opinion for or against abortion doesn't make a person sexist. ​ ^

This topic is the basis of all philosophy:
How is life started? When does it end? What is moral and just? What are the bounds of personal liberty? How do we ensure democracy for all citizens? What is justice? .


Thank you....this^



kraftiekortie
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20 May 2021, 11:16 pm

One person’s flaw is another person’s gift.



cyberdad
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20 May 2021, 11:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
One person’s flaw is another person’s gift.


Moral relativity



Sweetleaf
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20 May 2021, 11:47 pm

Not necessarily sexism, but still peoples religious beliefs can also stay out of my uterus as well. I don't want kids so, will abort regardless of others opinions if I get pregnant.


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salad
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20 May 2021, 11:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh what do you mean if the outcome doesn't change? Do you mean if the abortion does not work?


Denying an inalienable right is denying an inalienable right no matter what the argument used to justify it.


That argument actually contradicts the concept of inalienable rights since fundamental to that concept is that one's rights are only pursued insofar as they dont infringe on others' rights. From a certain angle abortion cant be called an inalienable right since in some contexts it infringes upon the right to life of the unborn fetus.


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cyberdad
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20 May 2021, 11:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Not necessarily sexism, but still peoples religious beliefs can also stay out of my uterus as well. I don't want kids so, will abort regardless of others opinions if I get pregnant.


Do you use contraception? that would resolve any dilemma over unwanted kids