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Why do people want Trump?

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ToughDiamond
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19 Dec 2021, 10:33 pm

^
That's the plainest and most accurate description of what Trump is up to that I've ever seen.



Kraichgauer
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19 Dec 2021, 10:40 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
^
That's the plainest and most accurate description of what Trump is up to that I've ever seen.


Thanks! 8)


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19 Dec 2021, 11:16 pm

White, cis-het, Christian male fragility, and that people still have the Cold War-era mindset (“everything I don’t like is communism!”).


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cyberdad
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19 Dec 2021, 11:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump tells his voters what they want to hear, whether it's true of not.
It's brown illegals taking American's jobs, he says, while avoiding how mechanization has done more to put people out of work.
He plays up to age old racism by siding with Confederate heritage, by defending violent racists at Charlottesville and the DC riot, while calling for BLM to be declared a terrorist group.
He lets people doubt the validity of science, allowing them to think that science and nature can bend to political ideology, which is clearly the case with Trump's handling of Covid.
He leads people to think he's a common sort of guy leading the battle against the elite, while as a second generation real estate mogul, he personifies elitism.
And on, and on, and on...


Add to that list
- bring back imaginary jobs to America
- take credit job growth from economic policies that Obama but in
- dismantle Obamacare and let sick people die
- support petroleum companies and ignore climate change dangers



Kraichgauer
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20 Dec 2021, 12:00 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump tells his voters what they want to hear, whether it's true of not.
It's brown illegals taking American's jobs, he says, while avoiding how mechanization has done more to put people out of work.
He plays up to age old racism by siding with Confederate heritage, by defending violent racists at Charlottesville and the DC riot, while calling for BLM to be declared a terrorist group.
He lets people doubt the validity of science, allowing them to think that science and nature can bend to political ideology, which is clearly the case with Trump's handling of Covid.
He leads people to think he's a common sort of guy leading the battle against the elite, while as a second generation real estate mogul, he personifies elitism.
And on, and on, and on...


Add to that list
- bring back imaginary jobs to America
- take credit job growth from economic policies that Obama but in
- dismantle Obamacare and let sick people die
- support petroleum companies and ignore climate change dangers


Yep.


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cyberdad
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20 Dec 2021, 12:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump tells his voters what they want to hear, whether it's true of not.
It's brown illegals taking American's jobs, he says, while avoiding how mechanization has done more to put people out of work.
He plays up to age old racism by siding with Confederate heritage, by defending violent racists at Charlottesville and the DC riot, while calling for BLM to be declared a terrorist group.
He lets people doubt the validity of science, allowing them to think that science and nature can bend to political ideology, which is clearly the case with Trump's handling of Covid.
He leads people to think he's a common sort of guy leading the battle against the elite, while as a second generation real estate mogul, he personifies elitism.
And on, and on, and on...


Add to that list
- bring back imaginary jobs to America
- take credit job growth from economic policies that Obama but in
- dismantle Obamacare and let sick people die
- support petroleum companies and ignore climate change dangers


Yep.


Oh and the worst is mocking war veterans who were imprisoned, injured or died when he dodged military draft
Finally mocking disabled people



ToughDiamond
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20 Dec 2021, 12:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
Oh and the worst is mocking war veterans who were imprisoned, injured or died when he dodged military draft

I never quite figured out why he did that. American support for their military is huge, at least in terms of sentiment and lip service, even though they never put any pressure on the gov to actually look after the casualties. So I don't see how he would have pleased his fans by saying what he did.



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20 Dec 2021, 12:34 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Oh and the worst is mocking war veterans who were imprisoned, injured or died when he dodged military draft

I never quite figured out why he did that. American support for their military is huge, at least in terms of sentiment and lip service, even though they never put any pressure on the gov to actually look after the casualties. So I don't see how he would have pleased his fans by saying what he did.


And yet the military/veterans continued to support him. Go figure.



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20 Dec 2021, 12:44 am

traven wrote:
T doesn't start wars for the sake of the military industrial complex, though they tried.
dems & rinos: hold my Ukraine m(h)oneypot -
& a several times cleaned story https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mc ... 13-12?IR=T
or https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/17 ... ald-trump/


Where did you get the idea that Trump starts wars on the first place.

Actually, I saw a link the other day that was listing all the wars each of the last few presidents started. And it shown that Trump was the only one that didn't start any wars.

Well, it went only over last three or four presidents or so. But still, he is clearly not the most war type of guy.



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20 Dec 2021, 12:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Because many people, in essence, want somebody who likes to kick some ass.

No matter how criminal the asskicking happens to be.

It could very well be a simple matter of liking somebody who likes to stir things up.


Its not that simple. Some BLM folks like to kick some ass too, yet Trump supporters won't support them.

They want people that can kick ass for what they see as the right political cause.



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20 Dec 2021, 12:49 am

QFT wrote:
Its not that simple. Some BLM folks like to kick some ass too, yet Trump supporters won't support them.

They want people that can kick ass for what they see as the right political cause.


BLM didn't storm the capitol building though.



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20 Dec 2021, 12:54 am

cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
Its not that simple. Some BLM folks like to kick some ass too, yet Trump supporters won't support them.

They want people that can kick ass for what they see as the right political cause.


BLM didn't storm the capitol building though.


If you look at all the property BLM destroyed during summer 2020 and compare it to the property that capitol riot destroyed, you will see BLM destroyed more.

Your argument is that capitol is somehow more important than businesses. In other words, we are debating which is more important: the sheer amount of property, or whom the property belongs to. If the amount, then BLM destroyed more. If who belongs to, then capitol riot destroyed more.

But I don't think it is sincere argument. Because if the sides were to switch around, as in Republicans were to destroy businesses throughout the summer, and democrats were to storm the capitol, then both sides would suddenly change their mind as to which kind of vandalism is worse.

And yes I say "both sides". I think both sides have an agenda and I don't think either side is sincere.

But in any case, the argument "both sides" present is that "the other side" caused more disraction. So that means that they don't favor someone who can "kick some ass". Since they are competting on who kicked LESS ass.



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20 Dec 2021, 2:15 am

QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
Its not that simple. Some BLM folks like to kick some ass too, yet Trump supporters won't support them.

They want people that can kick ass for what they see as the right political cause.


BLM didn't storm the capitol building though.


If you look at all the property BLM destroyed during summer 2020 and compare it to the property that capitol riot destroyed, you will see BLM destroyed more.

Your argument is that capitol is somehow more important than businesses. In other words, we are debating which is more important: the sheer amount of property, or whom the property belongs to. If the amount, then BLM destroyed more. If who belongs to, then capitol riot destroyed more.

But I don't think it is sincere argument. Because if the sides were to switch around, as in Republicans were to destroy businesses throughout the summer, and democrats were to storm the capitol, then both sides would suddenly change their mind as to which kind of vandalism is worse.

And yes I say "both sides". I think both sides have an agenda and I don't think either side is sincere.

But in any case, the argument "both sides" present is that "the other side" caused more disraction. So that means that they don't favor someone who can "kick some ass". Since they are competting on who kicked LESS ass.


The DC rioters were trying to subvert democracy by forcing the senate to cancel the election results, thereby undermining our very form of government. BLM just had a wild hare up the a$$.


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20 Dec 2021, 2:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
QFT wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
QFT wrote:
Its not that simple. Some BLM folks like to kick some ass too, yet Trump supporters won't support them.

They want people that can kick ass for what they see as the right political cause.


BLM didn't storm the capitol building though.


If you look at all the property BLM destroyed during summer 2020 and compare it to the property that capitol riot destroyed, you will see BLM destroyed more.

Your argument is that capitol is somehow more important than businesses. In other words, we are debating which is more important: the sheer amount of property, or whom the property belongs to. If the amount, then BLM destroyed more. If who belongs to, then capitol riot destroyed more.

But I don't think it is sincere argument. Because if the sides were to switch around, as in Republicans were to destroy businesses throughout the summer, and democrats were to storm the capitol, then both sides would suddenly change their mind as to which kind of vandalism is worse.

And yes I say "both sides". I think both sides have an agenda and I don't think either side is sincere.

But in any case, the argument "both sides" present is that "the other side" caused more disraction. So that means that they don't favor someone who can "kick some ass". Since they are competting on who kicked LESS ass.


The DC rioters were trying to subvert democracy by forcing the senate to cancel the election results, thereby undermining our very form of government. BLM just had a wild hare up the a$$.


^^^ this

I'm an ally of BLM but would never dream of damaging public property or subverting democracy. As I suspect almost all those on this forum sympathetic to BLM.



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20 Dec 2021, 2:31 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The DC rioters were trying to subvert democracy by forcing the senate to cancel the election results, thereby undermining our very form of government. BLM just had a wild hare up the a$$.


Well, capitol hill rioters were thinking they were defending democracy because, in their mind, the election was rigged. I am not claiming it was rigged, I am only claiming they thought that it was. So their "intention" was to defend democracy.

Similarly, people that were against them were also thinking they were defending democracy since in their mind the election was "not rigged".

So basically both sides were intending to defend democracy. They were just disagreeing as to what side democracy is on.

Also you might argue that BLM *did* try to attack democracy. Their intention was to basically blackmail courts to give the cops tougher sentences. Now, if you believe that courts represent democracy (since they were democratically elected), then forcing courts to do something they otherwise won't do would be an attack on democracy.

Again I am not insisting thats the case. I am just saying it can be argued that way. The point is that each side can argue that they are the ones defending democracy. Whatever side you more sympathize in, that side you will perceive as being a defender of democracy.



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20 Dec 2021, 2:44 am

QFT wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The DC rioters were trying to subvert democracy by forcing the senate to cancel the election results, thereby undermining our very form of government. BLM just had a wild hare up the a$$.


Well, capitol hill rioters were thinking they were defending democracy because, in their mind, the election was rigged. I am not claiming it was rigged, I am only claiming they thought that it was. So their "intention" was to defend democracy.

Similarly, people that were against them were also thinking they were defending democracy since in their mind the election was "not rigged".

So basically both sides were intending to defend democracy. They were just disagreeing as to what side democracy is on.

Also you might argue that BLM *did* try to attack democracy. Their intention was to basically blackmail courts to give the cops tougher sentences. Now, if you believe that courts represent democracy (since they were democratically elected), then forcing courts to do something they otherwise won't do would be an attack on democracy.

Again I am not insisting thats the case. I am just saying it can be argued that way. The point is that each side can argue that they are the ones defending democracy. Whatever side you more sympathize in, that side you will perceive as being a defender of democracy.


Violent, racist cops had been allowed to get away with their crimes too long, and so deserved hard sentences. Fighting for justice hardly is subverting democracy.
At least BLM protests something real; a far cry from the mass delusion of the capitol rioters.


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