Contemplative Spirituality & AS
My blog post on Atheist Spirituality.
Many claim that they "know" God and/or supernatural realms because of their own personal experiences of so-called "mystical" states. Not that I think these states don't exist, I have experienced them myself, the sense of awe, wonder, bliss, union, the whole thing. I just don't believe that these states are the result of supernatural things nor are they visions of the divine. I consider these "mystical" states to simply be altered states of consciousness, purely physical processes in the brain. Even though these states are "merely" effects of the brain that, in my opinion, doesn't mean they are not important, nor does it mean that these states are "mere delusions." These altered states of consciousness temporarily free our minds from the prison that is language-based brain processes that give us a sense of self and thus bring us into an ego-less mental state that allows us to see that we are parts of existance, we are not separate from it; we are parts of the Universe observing Itself, one could say. A good example of this is the case of a brain researcher who had a series of mystical experiences during a stroke. People only think that these wonderful and enlightening experiences are supernatural only because they are conditioned by their own religion beliefs to see them that way.
Mystics often describe the sense of unity and mystery experienced during altered states of consciousness as "The Absolute," "The One," The All," etc. and label this as "union with God." My problem with this is that this use of the term "God" stretches the term so much that it makes the term useless. Pantheistic theologies that conceive of the Cosmos and God as the same thing fall into the same problem. Such notions are very far removed from the concept of God as a supernatural man in the sky that performs miracles and punishes the wicked that most people believe in. The average person's notion of God is essentially only slightly removed from primitive superstition, the theologians' conceptualizations are irrelevant abstractions. Existence is wonderful in itself, using the term "God" to describe the wonder, awe, beauty, and mystery of existence and being is merely the use of an anthropomorphic and anthropocentric superstition based on a false dualistic world view. The physical world is not "mere" matter, it is The Absolute, The One, The All, The Ultimate Reality we are all a part of, and that, in my opinion, is far more beautiful and wonderful then any supernatural belief.
Odin and Narfmann: I pretty much agree with you. I think the social implications of monotheism (because of its patriarchal and hierachical implications) has been a net loss for humanity. On the other hand, theism seems a logical hypothesis to me given the alternatives available. I find my spiritual guides whereever they are and from whatever worldview they come from. I much appreciate your posts.
Odin: I have appreciated all your posts, I think I can look at new age stuff and select what might be useful to me. As they say in 12-step programs: take what you need and leave the rest.
Since we are arguing about contemplation rather than looking for insights about how to do it, I wonder if we have turned off Criss and some others who had neat things to say at the beginning of this thread.
Is it possible to be a monist and a theist without being a monotheist? Illogical. Sure. But I don't think that...(sorry, I can't think of a name for the entity I want to mention==Tao maybe) is necessarily logical.
One of my favorite quotes is from Aldous Huxley's introduction to Prabhavananda and Isherwood's translation of the Bhagavad-Gita.
"In regard to man's final end, all of the higher religions are in complete agreement. The purpose of human life is the discovery of Truth, the unitive knowledge of the Godhead.,,,, Contemplation of Truth is the end, action the means. In India, in China, in ancient Greece, in Christian Europe, this was regarded as the most obvious and axiomatic piece of orthodocxy, The invention of the steam engine produced a revolution, not merely in industrial techniques, but also much more significantly in philosophy. .... Because machines could be made progressively more and more efficient, Western man came to believe that men and sociieties would automatically register a corresponding moral and spiritual improvement. Attention and allegiance came to be paid, not to Eternity, but to the Utopian future. External circumstances came to be regarded as more important then states of mind...and the end of human life was held to be action, with contemplation as a means to that end. These false and historically aberrant...doctrines are now systematically taught... And so effective has been this propoganda that even professing Christians accept the heresy unquestionably and are quite unconscious of its complete incompatability with their own or anybody elses religion.
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Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
nominalist
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Location: Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas (born in NYC)
Sure, the Kashmiri Shaivites are polytheistic (Shiva and Shakti) and advaitist (monistic).
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Mark A. Foster, Ph.D. (retired tenured sociology professor)
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Thanks, nominalist. Unfortunately polytheism doesn't appeal to me. Pantheism, maybe.
Actually, I don't think it does my soul good for my mind to worry about things like theism, atheism, agnosticism, etcetera. My own version of "Pascal's wager" is whether at the root of things there is something less than life, or something more than life.
Having said that, it doesn[t make much sense either! The Tao (Godhead, Brahman. Pure Light of the Void. etc). Probably can't be comprehended by my mind. The unnamable, unknowable ground of being cannot be known (as the author of the Cloud of Unknowing says) but it can be loved.
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
On the way to the play, we stopped to look at the stars.
And as usual,
I felt in awe.
And then I felt even deeper in awe at this capacity we have to be
in awe about something.
Then I became even more awestruck
at the thought that I was
in some small way,
a part of that which I was in awe about.
And this feeling went on
and on
and on....
My space chums got a word for it,
"awe infinitum."
Because at the point you can comprehend how
incomprehensible it all is,
you're about as smart as you need to be.
Suddenly I burst into song
"Awe,
Sweet mystery of life,
at last I've found thee."
And I felt so good inside
and my heart was so full,
I decided I would set aside some time each day to do
awe-robics.
Because at the moment you are most in awe of all there is
about life that you don't understand,
you are closer to understanding it all than at any other time.
Jane Wagner, "The Search for Intelligent Life in the Universe."
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
I do not know quite how this happened, but I was not being linked to this site. Thank you so much Bobby for helping me back in to this thread that I started a while ago now.
Much has happened since I started the thread. If you remember I asked if there were any books written on the subject of AS from a spiritual perspective. In the end I decided to write my own, and I am really pleased to tell you that the publisher Darton Longman and Todd are going to publish it, it is called "Stations to Diagnosis" (The Journey of a Soul with Asperger's Syndrome)
I use the 14 stations of the cross as images to facilitate the reader through my autobiography, placing great importance on the prayerful preambles alongside each station.
I will let you all know when the publication day is, I guess it might be 3 to 4 months.
Hey bobby, you mentioned Peter Maurin and Dorothy Day, did you know I am in the London Catholic Worker?
So pleased to back, peace to you all and God bless you.
Chris.
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www.chrisgoodchild.com
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
Last edited by criss on 19 May 2008, 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Since I was re-linked to this thread last week (thanks to Bobby sending me a PM and thus re-linking me back in) I have been able to read all the contributors and just want to say a big thank you for everyone who has written in, I have enjoyed all you comments a great deal.
I am deeply drawn to the contemplative life because the world of silence is the only world I have every truly known. In silence and only in silence am I able to brake free of my habitual reaction to a world that is naturally overwhelming for me.
By training to be a teacher of the Alexander technique, I learned the art of drawing from that well of contemplation in everyday life events, however, such astute self observation and management of my use of self, alongside intensive psychotherapy for many many years, could only ever take me to a well (the NT world of relationships and work) that i could never really swim in.
My Dx, which came only a matter of weeks before I started this thread in August 2007, and has helped me find my true nature and understand how my mystical and contemplative orientation bares some relation to the 'green man' / UFO orientation of many WP contributors, in so much as a calling away from this world.
My book which I have written (which I have called, 'The Journey of a Soul with Asperger's Syndrome') focuses very much on Jesus being condemned not because of his difference, but by the world's indifference to his way of being that seems not of this world. It seems many parallels can be drawn here with apsies, and the cross and embracing our nature through diagnosis and self acceptance.
However, I am look forward very much to keeping in touch with you.
Kind regards to all my fellow travelers
Chris.
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www.chrisgoodchild.com
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
Abu'l-Hasan Khurqani (a Sufi) tells this story about himself. Apparently he had committed what he thought was a great secret sin, because once while he was praying, God came to him and threatened him thus: Hasan, I will tell the community about you then certainly they will stone you. Hasan replied that if God did that he would tell everyone how great God's mercy and grace are so that no one need ever feel compelled to pray again. God said: You keep my secret, and I'll keep yours.
What I get out of this story is that God is not to be feared.
Awe is defined as an attitude of mixed emotions such as reverence, dread, respect and wonder. But, hey, can't we do without the dread. Rabia and Catherine of Genoa agreed that if they worshipped God out of fear of hell they should be sent there. (Of course, they shouldn't be!)
I am not scared of the sacred; they sacred is not scary.
But then why did Dorothy Day refer to her love of God (or God's love of her) as "a harsh and dreadful love?" That phrase has always bothered me, and I think I have never been quite able to understand it.
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
Last edited by Bobby1933 on 27 May 2008, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hello Bobby.
How very interesting you quote DD and how she loved quoting Dostoyevsky "Love in practice is a harsh and dreadful thing compared to love in dreams"
Dostoyevsky is refering here to a character in 'The brothers karamazov' who confronts the priest saying something like, "if it was not for the ungrateful nature of patients I would most likely become a nurse" in response to this the priest said this famous line.
At the start of my little book I mention that it is dedicated to my son and also to St Therese of Lisieux, followed by this very quote.
I love it because as much as I am unashamedly a sentimentalist the agony of loving my son takes me into what I believe is the essence of this quote. Loving my son can be like looking into the sun, it is overwhelming and I have to look away such is the enormity of feeling, at times it feels harsh and dreadful, like a neurological storm.
Chris
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www.chrisgoodchild.com
"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)
Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)
Ah, yes. Thanks for the Dostoyevski reference, Criss. Also, I had not properly noticed before the Blake quote in you "signature." How great, and how appropriate.
I think a pert of the contemplative exercize (I was about to say enterprize, how oxymoronic --perhaps "innerprise") is to arrive at an attitude change, such that "real love" does not seem either "harsh" nor "dreadful." I find that volunteering at a homeless shelter (inspired by the Catholic Worker movement no less) encourages me to truly enjoy people whom I might once have considered dangerous and unlovable. Other volunteers, with a different attitude, burn out quickly.
My best wishes and kindest thoughts (and my prayers when I can pray) for your son!
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
There is an article in yesterdsay's (May 27, 2008) New York Times Op Ed section called "Lotus Therapy" by Benedict Carey. It describes eastern (especially Buddhist) meditation techniques and how they are being used in medicine to (for example) relieve pain and depression. The techniques are described very simply and briefly, but I enjoyed the descriptions. I was especially interested in the fact that the article appeared at all. Perhaps we really are starting a Sorokinian swing back toward a more Spiritual and idealistic age?
How nice to see modern medicine acknowledge that among the "fruits of contemplation" may be health benefits.
Incidentally, the theme of "dread" has got me thinking about both John of the Cross and Lao Tsu in the context of Blake's aphorism that Criss uses as her signature. (Have I erred in assuming that Criss is female?) More about this later. I just looked at Criss' profile, yes I was mistaken about his sex. Sorry. Refering to my congratulatory comment earlier. its not "You go, Girl" but "Go man, go!)
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
I Haven't had much time for reading lately and even less for contemplation. (Thank tao for the insight that one's relationship with one's spouse can be one's spiritual practice!) but I have looked at Hixon's Coming Homelong enough to highly recommend it. Several different Hindu mystical practices are discussed, along with neoplatonism, zen Buddhism, St. Paul, Sufiism, and Taoism. There is a two page discription of "The One" at the beginning of the chapter on Plotinus that is more than worth the price of the book (especially if the price of the book was $1.98 at a thrift store). Incidentally, my contempt for St. Paul is slowly changing toward cautious admiration. Love and peace.
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Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!
That sounds very idealistic to embrace all paths, but what does such a thing mean in reality? If it means you are combining (what you think are) the best parts of all paths and integrating them into your own personal life style, then you are effectively creating something new.
Not that this is anything very special because most if not all paths started as a combination of different parts of older paths.
Last edited by Daran on 21 Aug 2008, 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
The idea of embracing all paths is easier and harder than it seems. Easy because perhaps all paths are actually the one path or because there is no need for paths (If the kingdom of heaven is within us and around us there is nowhere we need to go to find it). Difficult because we do not typically find the simple truth without a long and difficult search. Ramakrishna (according to Hixon) considered himself a child of the goddess Kali; but to experience the Christian path, he became a Christian (which I assume meant accepting Jesus Christ as his personal savior); to experience the Sufi path, he became a Moslem (which I assume meant learning Arabic;) and to experience the Buddhist path, he became fully Buddhist. I think Hixon was trying to do the same thing (as nominalist pointed out).
Huxley (and nominalist) made reference to the "perennial philosophy," a set of ideas about the spiritual nature of reality and the place and purpose of human beings within that reality which is shared by cultures around the world including our own culture up until about 500 years ago but widely different from contemporary Western culture. It is as if spiritual "paths" converged toward a center, so that the person farthest along his or her own path can see that others are walking different appearing but functionally similar paths leading to the same end while those lagging behind can see only the differences. The farther along one's path the bigger the similarities among spiritual traditions loom and the smaller the differences shrink. Love and peace.
_________________
Nun: I believe I am God.
Meister Eckhart: Praise be to God!