Is Sexual Orientation Actively Changable?

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Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 8:34 pm

Sopho wrote:

I still don't get why 'he' is written with a capital H when referring to this god thing. Since when did pronouns begin with capitals?

Ah, now you're getting to the deep and profound matters of existence. :roll:

I do notice, though, that you can't seem to stand referring to God as even "he", let alone "He". Do you hate men or something?

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Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 8:38 pm

Sopho wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

calandale wrote:

Don't assume that you understand their
minds better than they do.

I'm not. But I believe God. Have I figured out all the perfect applications for His truths? No, but at least I care what He says.

or what you THINK He says.

Me and millions.

Like I've said before, lots of people believing it means nothing. Millions of kids believe in Santa. There are also millions of people who believe in other religions. Can't all be right according to you though.

Or logic.

I was just correcting greenblue from implying that only I believe the Bible. He's smarter than that, but I won't let the sly implication slide.

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calandale
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13 Aug 2007, 8:39 pm

michel wrote:

And if you think you can change your sexual orientation, great. I've been with too many married men to know different.

Yup. You're right in raggy's boat.

Look, I'm not saying everyone can.

He is. You are saying everyone can't.

I see the root of intolerance, and you BOTH
share it.

Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 8:40 pm

greenblue wrote:

Sopho wrote:

I still don't get why 'he' is written with a capital H when referring to this god thing. Since when did pronouns begin with capitals? And why is it not a 'she'?

well, I hope is a She.

Are you already gelded, or will you let Her do that?

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Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 8:47 pm

michel wrote:

So, Ragtime, what if the shoe were in the other foot? What if I told you "Hey it's disgusting that you want to be with a woman, you need to have sex with men in order to be accepted and loved".
:idea:

Could you REALLY do it? Think about it. That's how I feel.

Do you KNOW you can never like women in that way? I have to factor in that it would help your argument for you to exaggerate the concreteness of your sexuality, and that, me not knowing you, I don't know that you're not fudging on the exact level of difficulty you have liking women. Not saying you're being dishonest; I'm saying it would be in your argument's best interest to be dishonest, so I can't ignore that principle. Only a fool takes everyone at their word.

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Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 8:54 pm

michel wrote:

calandale wrote:

And uhm, HOW do you know this?

Some people CAN change the color of their skin,
BTW. I've seen them come out of these coffin devices
looking all dark.

I'm talking about the real color of their skin, it's a metaphor. And if you think you can change your sexual orientation, great. I've been with too many married men to know different.

I think that deep down, people are people. All the same. Sexual preference is something deep, but not within the very deepest part of us. I think there are some major efforts which can change someone's preferences. I felt concretely straight too, years ago. It was only when I tried really hard to imagine what it must be like for gay people, that I finally began to see it. But before that, I swore I could never understand their mentality. But now I do.

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Last edited by Ragtime on 13 Aug 2007, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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13 Aug 2007, 8:59 pm

calandale wrote:

And uhm, HOW do you know this?

Because, I'm pretty damned certain that I could.

You could be somewhere on the spectrum, probably that is why

I don't think someone could change their sexual orientation intentionally or by choice, probably by nature, if it requires adapting to a new environment or way of living or something like that, perhaps.

I also read that there is evidence that conversion therapies don't work, suggesting that gays cannot change their sexual orientation.

calandale wrote:

Some people CAN change the color of their skin,

Michael Jackson did.

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Last edited by greenblue on 13 Aug 2007, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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13 Aug 2007, 9:00 pm

calandale wrote:

michel wrote:

And if you think you can change your sexual orientation, great. I've been with too many married men to know different.

Yup. You're right in raggy's boat.

Look, I'm not saying everyone can.

He is. You are saying everyone can't.

I see the root of intolerance, and you BOTH
share it.

A belief in universal human traits is not intolerance. He believes people's sexuality is concrete. I believe it's plastic. Both of those views are just that. If you believe all kinds of frogs are green, then you discover a poisonous red arrow frog, that doesn't mean your view is "intolerant". It's either right or it's wrong. "Intolerance" is a politically-correct BS term designed to manipulate people's views through tuggin' on the ol' heart strings. But truth is truth.

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calandale
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13 Aug 2007, 9:02 pm

Ragtime wrote:

I was only when I tried really hard to imagine what it must be like for gay people, that I finally began to see it. But before that, I swore I could never understand their mentality. But now I do.

Now THIS strikes me as pure crap.
Given that many gay people claim to
have NO control over their sexuality,
and you seem to believe that you do,
right there, there is enough difference
to realize that your 'pretending to be
gay' is just not the same.

Moreover, you just 'tried really hard to imagine'.
I'm sorry, you didn't even manage to convince
yourself. I can try to imagine what being a rock
is like, but I really don't think that I have any
special insight from doing this.

I doubt that even you have the control over your
sexuality which I think I might. But then again, you
probably are a great deal further away from being
able to throw yourself into psychosis.

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13 Aug 2007, 9:10 pm

calandale wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I was only when I tried really hard to imagine what it must be like for gay people, that I finally began to see it. But before that, I swore I could never understand their mentality. But now I do.

Now THIS strikes me as pure crap.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

calandale wrote:

Given that many gay people claim to
have NO control over their sexuality,
and you seem to believe that you do,

Ah, but for most of my life, I thought I didn't have that control. I even swore there's no way I could ever be gay, and I believed I was hardwired not to be. I underestimated the power of the human will. But then I saw the light -- or rather, the rainbow.

calandale wrote:

right there, there is enough difference
to realize that your 'pretending to be
gay' is just not the same.

I wasn't pretending, I WAS GAY. I liked men and I didn't like women. I even flirted with a guy with the mildest body language, and he responded. Why is changability too hard for you to grasp?

calandale wrote:

Moreover, you just 'tried really hard to imagine'.

I like how you admonish michel and me for "knowing" someone else's mind, and then turn around and claim to know mine. At the very least, you're claiming I'm lying.

calandale wrote:

I'm sorry, you didn't even manage to convince
yourself. I can try to imagine what being a rock
is like, but I really don't think that I have any
special insight from doing this.

That's because rocks aren't human; gay people are.

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calandale
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13 Aug 2007, 9:17 pm

Ragtime wrote:

A belief in universal human traits is not intolerance.

When one starts using the word 'know'
and accusing the other beliefs with something
lesser, it is indeed intolerance.

You'd damned well better have some good
proof, to make such statements. Which neither
of you do.

greenblue
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13 Aug 2007, 9:23 pm

calandale wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

A belief in universal human traits is not intolerance.

The bibel, isn't that a proof?

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calandale
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13 Aug 2007, 9:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:

calandale wrote:

right there, there is enough difference
to realize that your 'pretending to be
gay' is just not the same.

I wasn't pretending, I WAS GAY. I liked men and I didn't like women. I even flirted with a guy with the mildest body language, and he responded.

Whoop whoop. I flirt with guys all the time.
Kiss them now and then. Had sex with one.
I like attention. But, it didn't do anything like
what just THINKING about something I'm attracted
to does. And none of that changed my outlook.

Quote:

Why is changability too hard for you to grasp?

It's not at all. Like I said, I'm pretty certain that
I COULD develop a taste for males. Or maybe
even toasters. Certainly doesn't put me in the
same boat with people who DON'T think that
they can.

Quote:

calandale wrote:

Moreover, you just 'tried really hard to imagine'.

I like how you admonish michel and me for "knowing" someone else's mind, and then turn around and claim to know mine. At the very least, you're claiming I'm lying.

You're the one claiming that you are lying then.
I was only using your words. I can't be bothered
to try and determine what you're spouting is BS.

But, thanks for keeping an eye on yourself.
Someone should be making certain you're not
pulling a fast one.

Quote:

That's because rocks aren't human; gay people are.

And you are neither a rock nor gay.
That's clear from what you've said.
Neither am I.

Sedaka
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13 Aug 2007, 9:35 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Only a fool takes everyone at their word.

unless you base a religion off of it..........

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Sedaka
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13 Aug 2007, 9:43 pm

calandale wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I was only when I tried really hard to imagine what it must be like for gay people, that I finally began to see it. But before that, I swore I could never understand their mentality. But now I do.

this is why i dont believe an ounce of what he says.

i am not trying to speak for all people... and i think that bi people are prolly more flexible generally than straight or gay

what strikes me above these claims is that he's now trying to add asexuality to his list of gay/straight/bi to his list of realities (not to mention others he claims for fact)...

however ambigous you are about your sexuality... you cant just shirk it off all together.

people become aware of their sexuality very young... heck, i started masterbating @ 6yrs old

that he just decided to ponder it one day.. really makes his stance seem flimsy with respect to him

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Sedaka
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13 Aug 2007, 9:45 pm

Ragtime wrote:

calandale wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

I was only when I tried really hard to imagine what it must be like for gay people, that I finally began to see it. But before that, I swore I could never understand their mentality. But now I do.

Now THIS strikes me as pure crap.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

calandale wrote:

Given that many gay people claim to
have NO control over their sexuality,
and you seem to believe that you do,

calandale wrote:

right there, there is enough difference
to realize that your 'pretending to be
gay' is just not the same.

I wasn't pretending, I WAS GAY. I liked men and I didn't like women. I even flirted with a guy with the mildest body language, and he responded. Why is changability too hard for you to grasp?

calandale wrote:

Moreover, you just 'tried really hard to imagine'.

I like how you admonish michel and me for "knowing" someone else's mind, and then turn around and claim to know mine. At the very least, you're claiming I'm lying.

calandale wrote:

I'm sorry, you didn't even manage to convince
yourself. I can try to imagine what being a rock
is like, but I really don't think that I have any
special insight from doing this.

That's because rocks aren't human; gay people are.

and then god said, "don't be gay, ragtime"

and it was so

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