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Was Brexit a mistake?

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Was brexit a mistake?
Yes 86%  86%  [ 19 ]
No 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Don't know 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 22

Honey69
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05 Dec 2023, 11:12 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
4. One chap blew his nose right in front of me as I passed him on the street. No handkerchief, he just occluded one nostril and blew a string of snot out of the other, straight onto the pavement at my feet. What a culture shock!


That's what I do, although I try not to do it right next to anybody.


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Honey69
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05 Dec 2023, 11:18 am

DuckHairback wrote:
Now the shortfall is being made up by migrants from places further afield and more culturally removed like India and Pakistan


Pakistan and India were part of the old British Empire, and part of the Commonwealth https://thecommonwealth.org/our-member-countries

Maybe people from Commonwealth countries have more in common with the UK than do people from continental Europe? You were part of the same empire for hundreds of years. A lot of them speak English. They play cricket and rugby.


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05 Dec 2023, 12:50 pm

^ Yeah, but I think the issue for the anti-immigration lot is that they're... brown! (clutches pearls).


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05 Dec 2023, 1:07 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
4. One chap blew his nose right in front of me as I passed him on the street. No handkerchief, he just occluded one nostril and blew a string of snot out of the other, straight onto the pavement at my feet. What a culture shock!


The farmer blow.


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ToughDiamond
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05 Dec 2023, 3:06 pm

Honey69 wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
4. One chap blew his nose right in front of me as I passed him on the street. No handkerchief, he just occluded one nostril and blew a string of snot out of the other, straight onto the pavement at my feet. What a culture shock!


That's what I do, although I try not to do it right next to anybody.

Dad always used to call it "Cossack style," though he didn't reveal his source of information and I've found nothing on the Web about Cossack nose-blowing habits. Still, interesting that both Cossacks and the chap I met were both from Eastern Europe.

I've always said that what a chap does in private is OK as long as it's harmless, which privately-done activities usually are. But in public, I gather even nose-blowing with a hanky or tissue is deemed rude by many, especially in Japan. Personally I've never had any strong objection to people blowing their noses into paper tissues, even while eating communally at a table as long as they sit back a bit. I don't know how people with runny noses are expected to cope in some cultures, as they don't leave any way out. I just don't want to see strings of snot because that's likely to make me heave. A fascinating subject. It's odd how it's the little things that can fuel racism.



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05 Dec 2023, 3:25 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
4. One chap blew his nose right in front of me as I passed him on the street. No handkerchief, he just occluded one nostril and blew a string of snot out of the other, straight onto the pavement at my feet. What a culture shock!


The farmer blow.

At last, a non-racist term for the practice, and one that can be found on the Web. 8) But farmers seem to get the blame for all ungentlemanly behaviour, which is probably as unfair as racism, but has better escaped cancellation.



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05 Dec 2023, 3:42 pm

Honey69 wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Now the shortfall is being made up by migrants from places further afield and more culturally removed like India and Pakistan


Pakistan and India were part of the old British Empire, and part of the Commonwealth https://thecommonwealth.org/our-member-countries

Maybe people from Commonwealth countries have more in common with the UK than do people from continental Europe? You were part of the same empire for hundreds of years. A lot of them speak English. They play cricket and rugby.

The brown-skin effect has been mentioned. Also, Commonwealth people were given the right to come and live in the UK as an incentive for military service during WW2, which led to an unexpectedly large take-up, hence the traditional resentment towards Indians, Pakistanis, Caribbeans, etc. Large-scale, sudden immigration usually causes strong anger among the indigenous population, especially when the authorities don't take the trouble to prepare the hosts or the immigrants for the change. The friction abates eventually, but it can take a long time. Meanwhile the gov glibly lecturing people on the sin of racism every time they said anything against immigration didn't help. It just drove the resentment underground where it festered. I heard it frequently from the working class during the 60s and 70s.



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05 Dec 2023, 3:48 pm

Woodpecker wrote:
I have always held the view that Brexit was a dire and stupid mistake.

I am sure that Russia and various superrich people used lies, halftruths and misinformation to get the useful idiots to vote for something which is and will continue to damge the interests of the UK

Well in that case it wasn't a mistake. It was done deliberately.


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05 Dec 2023, 3:53 pm

DuckHairback wrote:
It is a major concern, rightly so, but rarely for the right reasons. It's mostly been whipped up by a malevolent media which likes to present migrants as a negative thing, coming over here stealing our jobs at the same time as claiming benefits, somehow.

The truth is that the UK has an aging population, all those oldies need care and there aren't enough young people entering social and health care jobs because they don't pay very well and conditions are shocking - there's better and easier money to be made elsewhere. Can't blame them for that. Ditto for seasonal crop picking.

If we're not going to have loads more children, then we need immigrants to come and do these jobs for us, we should be making them feel as welcome as possible. We also need their taxes to pay for the pensions of the elderly.

Migrants are a net benefit to our economy and our public services but no one ever makes the case for them.

When we were in the EU, most of these migrants were from the EU, naturally. Now the shortfall is being made up by migrants from places further afield and more culturally removed like India and Pakistan, which I can't imagine will please the people who voted for Brexit out of xenophobia.

I thought the Brits would be happy to benefit from someone else's brain drain.


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The_Walrus
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06 Dec 2023, 7:17 am

Honey69 wrote:
DuckHairback wrote:
Now the shortfall is being made up by migrants from places further afield and more culturally removed like India and Pakistan


Pakistan and India were part of the old British Empire, and part of the Commonwealth https://thecommonwealth.org/our-member-countries

Maybe people from Commonwealth countries have more in common with the UK than do people from continental Europe? You were part of the same empire for hundreds of years. A lot of them speak English. They play cricket and rugby.

The only Asian country who play significant amounts of rugby are Japan, who aren't Commonwealth. Ireland, France, Italy, and Romania are bigger rugby players.

More importantly, football is a much bigger part of British culture than cricket or rugby. Cricket is increasingly seen not as "something we have in common with India", but almost like kabaddi where it's an Asian interest.

While Britain's ties to the Commonwealth are a part of our culture, our ties to Europe are stronger and we have more in common with our neighbours than we do with India or Nigeria.



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06 Dec 2023, 9:14 am

The_Walrus wrote:

More importantly, football is a much bigger part of British culture than cricket or rugby. Cricket is increasingly seen not as "something we have in common with India", but almost like kabaddi where it's an Asian interest.



Doesn't England still get excited about the Ashes? I had never heard of kabaddi before.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBm5IkA ... baddiState


The_Walrus wrote:
While Britain's ties to the Commonwealth are a part of our culture, our ties to Europe are stronger and we have more in common with our neighbours than we do with India or Nigeria.


But, Britain has spent centuries fighting numerous wars against most parts of Europe at one time or another. I think that some French still hold a grudge against Britain over what you did to Joan of Arc, plus the results of some of the subsequent wars, where the French lost Canada, for example. Some of the Irish may still be prejudiced against the English.

Also, other parts of Europe, like Britain, have aging populations, and are bringing in immigrants from Africa and the Middle East.

It looks like the Brits are trying to cut down on the number of people importing spouses from abroad: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67630258?at ... c_team=crm

It appears that incomes, in general, are quite low in the UK, and they're trying to reserve special privileges for wealthy folks.


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ToughDiamond
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06 Dec 2023, 10:20 am

Honey69 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
While Britain's ties to the Commonwealth are a part of our culture, our ties to Europe are stronger and we have more in common with our neighbours than we do with India or Nigeria.


But, Britain has spent centuries fighting numerous wars against most parts of Europe at one time or another. I think that some French still hold a grudge against Britain over what you did to Joan of Arc, plus the results of some of the subsequent wars, where the French lost Canada, for example. Some of the Irish may still be prejudiced against the English.

Also, other parts of Europe, like Britain, have aging populations, and are bringing in immigrants from Africa and the Middle East.

It looks like the Brits are trying to cut down on the number of people importing spouses from abroad: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67630258?at ... c_team=crm

It appears that incomes, in general, are quite low in the UK, and they're trying to reserve special privileges for wealthy folks.

Salient and valid points there IMO. Most of the groups the English tend to hate have been at some time either at war with the English government or part of its empire - Irish, French, Dutch, German, Spanish, Indian/Pakistani, African - and I think our government traditionally encouraged the hatred of such groups in order to garner support for governmental machinations which cost a lot of taxpayers' money and killed a lot of English soldiers.

The Tories are now desperate to get immigration down so yes, they're going to target the importation of spouses, as they're pretty much the only group the economy and NHS don't desperately need. Unfortunately for the Tories it's also likely to discourage the cash-cows and NHS-rescuers from coming in because they often don't want to be separated from their families.



Honey69
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06 Dec 2023, 11:18 am

In some of the older Indian movies, especially those featuring Shah Rukh Khan, England has generally been presented in a positive light.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a4izd3Rvdw


But, in R.R.R., the British colonizers are presented as the most horrible people imaginable, except that some of the British ladies are very nice.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miU3rlYKEjs


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06 Dec 2023, 11:50 am

Honey69 wrote:
In some of the older Indian movies, especially those featuring Shah Rukh Khan, England has generally been presented in a positive light.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a4izd3Rvdw


But, in R.R.R., the British colonizers are presented as the most horrible people imaginable, except that some of the British ladies are very nice.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miU3rlYKEjs


RRR doesn't even portray England as so terrible, IMO. If any part of the world should portray British colonizers as the most horrible people imaginable, it should be Canada & the USA.. considering the slaughter of nearly 100,000,000 Indigenous peoples here -> a near complete genocide.


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Honey69
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06 Dec 2023, 12:00 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
If any part of the world should portray British colonizers as the most horrible people imaginable, it should be Canada & the USA.. considering the slaughter of nearly 100,000,000 Indigenous peoples here -> a near complete genocide.


Well, the British did try to stop the expansion of colonial settlement into the Ohio territory.

https://www.ushistory.org/us/9a.asp


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goldfish21
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06 Dec 2023, 12:25 pm

Honey69 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
If any part of the world should portray British colonizers as the most horrible people imaginable, it should be Canada & the USA.. considering the slaughter of nearly 100,000,000 Indigenous peoples here -> a near complete genocide.


Well, the British did try to stop the expansion of colonial settlement into the Ohio territory.

https://www.ushistory.org/us/9a.asp

...only as a matter of self preservation to prevent getting slaughtered as they'd done to others, not because murdering more people to steal more land wasn't something they were willing to do.


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