should prostitution be legalized?

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rideforever
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08 Sep 2007, 4:03 pm

Flagg wrote:

Not the governments job to say whats right and wrong as long as you only harm consenting adults and their property in the process of your existence in society.

What are you talking about ?

The government's job is to do what the society it represents deems right. If necessary making laws to prevent wrong.

Consent is an illusion. If someone has a gun to his head and then decides to 'do something' is that consent ? What about if pressure has been applied via poverty or abuse, and then that person decides to 'do something' is that 'consent' ?

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 4:07 pm

rideforever wrote:

Eh ?! The point of a society is to have moral controls.

The point of society is to have social cooperation, not moral controls. It is arguable that the point of government is moral controls but who says that moral controls are the correct way to run things? The point of a liberal(not left-wing) society is to reduce moral controls and the west is openly liberal in that sense.

TheMachine1 wrote:

Here are some ideas to consider:

1. Should the women be drug tested (I'm assuming they will be frequency tested for STD's anyway). This would reduce the chance
they are resorting to this job to support a drug habit(no you can not answer this question by supporting legalization of drugs Smile )?

Why not? If we do not support the law then why would we advise cracking down on it? I would not call for any mandatory testing, this includes STDs. If people want to avoid the crotch rot then they can look for premium services that pride themselves on a lack of crotch rot, that is probably the most likely solution, if they think that a dinky little condom cures all then they can go for that.

Quote:

2. A large percent of the women who are hookers are resent immigrants. They are often under false pretences forced to work in the sex industry. Family in their native countries can be threaten by
international organised criminals. So would you support all non-citizens(but legal to work) and conditions on new citizenship to be a prohibition from working in the sex industry?

Ok, can our government handle transnational crime so efficiently as to deal with these problems? I do not support a prohibition of that because I think that this is more descriptive of actions by the Russian mafia to Eastern European immigrants not to all immigrants.

Quote:

3. In the US the drinking age is 21. Would you support a higher minimum age for hookers?

I would support a lower drinking age. The age of consent tends to generally be 18, we can go with that as there is not a significant difference in paid sex vs non-paid sex. If you accept either people can call you a slut anyway so why care otherwise?

Flagg
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08 Sep 2007, 4:09 pm

rideforever wrote:

Flagg wrote:

Not the governments job to say whats right and wrong as long as you only harm consenting adults and their property in the process of your existence in society.

What are you talking about ?

The government's job is to do what the society it represents deems right. If necessary making laws to prevent wrong.

No, government exists to protect the rights of individuals and provide police and military forces, not make morality.

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Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 4:11 pm

rideforever wrote:

The government's job is to do what the society it represents deems right. If necessary making laws to prevent wrong.

That is a theory of government in its own way. I reject that theory of government as inherently oppressive and a threat to my own ability to do what is right.

Quote:

Consent is an illusion. If someone has a gun to his head and then decides to 'do something' is that consent ? What about if pressure has been applied via poverty or abuse, and then that person decides to 'do something' is that 'consent' ?

Consent is in some ways an illusion, correct. A gun is an active threat by one party to another and I would consider it coercive because one party acts to reduce the welfare of another party by threatening something that this party should inherently have possession over. Abuse of adults is in the same category, past abuse doesn't count though. Poverty also doesn't count as that is a base condition, not a created condition through destroying what an individual can be considered as naturally owning. Because of that I regard consent from a contractual property nature, threats attack the property basis, but other conditions cause no problems to it.

TheMachine1
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08 Sep 2007, 4:13 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

I would support a lower drinking age.

Would you make automobile liability insurance completely optional to?

rideforever
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08 Sep 2007, 4:13 pm

Flagg wrote:

rideforever wrote:

Flagg wrote:

Not the governments job to say whats right and wrong as long as you only harm consenting adults and their property in the process of your existence in society.

What are you talking about ?

The government's job is to do what the society it represents deems right. If necessary making laws to prevent wrong.

No, government exists to protect the rights of individuals and provide police and military forces, not make morality.

No, that is how it does it. Not why it does it.

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 4:14 pm

Aridarr wrote:

I'm not thinking straight at the moment, so I could be completely off on this, but do you think there is a possibility that legalizing prostitution would just make it easier for men to sexually abuse/assault women and get away with it?

Yes, it could.

Quote:

It seems like a dangerous lowering of moral standards, to me.

Whose morality though? Can society own morality or only individuals? If individuals are the only owners of moral beliefs then why should that ownership give them rights over the actions of others?

Quote:

I seriously doubt that any woman who sells her body is doing so entirely of her own free will. And by that, I mean, for any reason not of pathological origin or simply for the desperate need of money.

Ok, but you cannot prove it. Pathology is something assigned by society to what it hates, homosexuality was a pathology to the nazis as was jewishness, can we properly assign pathology from an adequately subjective position? Money desperation is a different matter, but if desperation is still taken subjectively then what does it matter? If one supports the reasons for desperation then why not alleviate poverty through charity? If not then why does it matter?

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 4:15 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:

Would you make automobile liability insurance completely optional to?

I believe that this issue has to do more with externalities than anything else so with the current road structures so I do not think I would do that. Prostitution and drinking do not inherently create large externalities though.

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 4:17 pm

rideforever wrote:

No, that is how it does it. Not why it does it.

It does this in order to maintain social order, it maintains social order so that cooperation between beings is possible. Any other statements are more reflective of an illiberal society than of a liberal one, our society is built upon liberality as noted by current legal structures such as a right to free speech and other things of said nature.

rideforever
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08 Sep 2007, 4:28 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

.. bla bla bla ..

I couldn't give 2 s**ts about defining what a country is or isn't.

The only thing I care about is helping people who are suffering, and you 2 (FlaggAG) clearly just want to piss on people who are suffering.

I hope you find yourself in a position where you are desperate and suffering one day, I'll come round and piss on you too.
.
.

Flagg
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08 Sep 2007, 4:36 pm

rideforever wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

.. bla bla bla ..

I couldn't give 2 s**ts about defining what a country is or isn't.

The only thing I care about is helping people who are suffering, and you 2 (Flagg and AG) clearly just want to piss on people who are suffering.

I hope you find yourself in a position where you are desperate and suffering one day, I'll come round and piss on you too.
.
.

There are charities to help the poor that do a better job then the government can and only take donations - not take from every member of society.

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skafather84
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08 Sep 2007, 4:45 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

gwenevyn wrote:

I don't think it's that cut and dry, Flagg. I can think of many situations in which a person could be manipulated into giving consent, without understanding the ramifications.

A person can foolishly give consent but by consenting I still would hesitate to call this person a victim of anything but stupidity. A choice one makes that solely affects them can be a bad choice but they do not become anyone's victim.

so does that mean that every idiot who has ever signed a contact while being of legal age but just being stupid should be able to break their contract?

that logic doesn't hold up in court and it also doesn't in this debate.

try again.

skafather84
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08 Sep 2007, 4:48 pm

gwenevyn wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

gwenevyn wrote:

I don't think it's that cut and dry, Flagg. I can think of many situations in which a person could be manipulated into giving consent, without understanding the ramifications.

How not? If I know that another person has diminished mental capacity and I take advantage of that fact for my own gain, you'd really say that he wasn't a victim, because he consented? That he deserved it because of his stupidity?

people who are incapable of making their own choices to a legal state of being metally handicapped normally have guardians who make such decisions for them

or are ret*ds around the world being screwed over by bad loans, car deals, and renters' agreements?

rideforever
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08 Sep 2007, 4:56 pm

skafather84 wrote:

does that mean that every idiot who has ever signed a contact while being of legal age but just being stupid should be able to break their contract?

If someone as stupid as you signed a contract ... yes

Awesomelyglorious
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08 Sep 2007, 5:23 pm

rideforever wrote:

I couldn't give 2 s**ts about defining what a country is or isn't.

Yes you do, you are trying to do it at this moment to fit your own desires.

Quote:

The only thing I care about is helping people who are suffering, and you 2 (FlaggAG) clearly just want to piss on people who are suffering.

It is a great failure to define your opponents as hateful just because they disagree with your position on an issue. I never said I believed that prostitution was good, I said I believed that governments should not get involved, truly, I am not planning on ever using a prostitute.

Quote:

I hope you find yourself in a position where you are desperate and suffering one day, I'll come round and piss on you too.
.
.

I hope none of us are in that position in all honesty.

skafather84
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08 Sep 2007, 5:26 pm

rideforever wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

does that mean that every idiot who has ever signed a contact while being of legal age but just being stupid should be able to break their contract?

If someone as stupid as you signed a contract ... yes

oooo personal attacks. really proved your point there. i'm convinced...prostitution must be kept illegal.

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