I've been thinking...

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Wrong? No. Not by any means. Of course we must believe in what makes sense to us. I don't see how we do anything else, with any level of honesty.

I do find it a bit disturbing though when people invent their own spiritual beliefs or accept a set of beliefs out of convenience rather than through a great deal of thought. For example, I know a man who has made his own mysticism surrounding a phrase he invented when he was a child. Or a person who says "I think when we die we all become one being, because that idea sounds pretty to me." I see a distinction between choosing an option that makes sense after a critical evaluation and inventing what makes sense in the absence of supporting evidence.

Unreally?

Well, anything immutable I'd consider part of reality.

DejaQ

You said,

This seems to be in line with something known as determinism. Determinism deals with the idea that even though the Heisenberg uncertainty principle makes it impossible to know the entire state of every particle in the world, that natural laws are immutable and therefore since there is a state of positions, motions and forces acting on all the particles, natural law determines all.

I think probably there a number of different faiths, including both theist and atheist one's that don't go to the extreme of belief as determinism.

In fact saying " reality is true" is about as useful as saying "god is love". And just shows again how reality has been deified in our society.
The word real originally meant "central". Unreality is what surrounds it. Like what is in the darkness around a campfire. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The concept of reality itself, that which is central, implies the existence of something outside, surrounding the centre.

I am def beginning to think Jungs theory of the collective unconscious, (of the archetypes; the hero, the shadow etc and of the personal inner journey etc) is a most intelligent and inspired modern approach to unreality; and unlike almost all religions is innocent of oppression because free of pedagogy.

Enjoy your view.

Jung was convinced that books spontaneously exploded on his bookshelf. Also he believed in astrology. If nothing else, this should make one cautious about his beliefs.

Yes, Christianity, which teaches that there is life after death, believes that people can walk on water, insists that rice wafers turn into the Christ when distributed at mass, and that a virgin gave birth looks positively logical in comparison!! Obviously Jung's worldview doesn't have a foot to stand on!

Ragtime, why do you tell me to "enjoy my view" ? According to you that ( feeling good/"pleasant emotions" ) is absolutely not a good reason for holding a belief, and thus your injunction to me smacks of condescension : it's good enough for me , but not for you. For you, as you have described at length, there are higher standards for testing a spiritual belief, to do with "truth and reality" and " staying sharp", not mere "feeling good". I would appreciate a reply that did not suggest that other peoples beliefs are less searching, serious and rigorous than yours!. I don't think i expressed condescension to yours, simply disagreement. If you don't want to discuss my views i would rather you said nothing than "Enjoy your view". Wouldn't you?

DejaQ, the teachings of Carl Jung about the collective unconscious involve some very "meaning"-ful spiritual beliefs, about our journey in life, the spiritual trials and obstacles, the goals etc, and the parts of ourself which help us in our quest, and the parts of ourself which need to be recognised and faced and fought and accepted etc. And give life a deep meaning without resorting to pedagogy, nor excluding people on grounds of sexuality etc as so many religions do. I am only just beginning to learn about it, for first time since my teens anyway, when was quite interested in it all. But i think it may be rather inspiring if you are looking for meaning.

Well, it has the two-fold advantage of making one sound profound at the same time as excusing one's failing memory.

Were the books ever discovered to be absent-mindedly misplaced, I wonder?

Well, actually God, not people.

I've never believed that in twenty-four years as a Christian. Please say "Catholic" when you mean Catholic.

Far more probable than that all life evolved from some soup that existed billions of years ago, which is the currect "consensus" of "Science".

Seek testimonies? Yes, I would definitely do this. Find one the makes sense? Yes. Sense to you, or one that conforms to your perspective? If it does, it would be nice, but that shouldn't be your criteria. You may find the actual truth to be far different from what you could have imagined it to be, and be ready to accept it if it is.

IMO Always be open minded and seek what makes sense to you.

I would just take on Buddhism.

Ya, it's easy because it's fairly brainless -- you just sort of float along and feel pious. I'd highly recommend it as a religion for those seeking more self-involvement and a vacation from the mind. Nothing too involved. Don't have to get your hands dirty with any real-world issues.

Whichever one of those two rationales for a faith that you choose it will be the one that makes sense to you. ( a bit like the anarchist "joke"; whoever you vote for the government will always get in"! !)

I think it is the process of FINDING out WHICH one makes sense to you which is the hardest bit. Although religions which still state that homosexuality is a sin, or that women are to obey men, etc , would seem to be pretty debunked by now.
I feel as if i have only just today got a handle on which faith and spiritual path makes sense to me, that of the Unreal in the theories of Carl Jung, the collective unconscious, and our interior journey, as a result of this very thread. So I'm feeling rather grateful to you. Thanks.

Then just don't dread the end. This life is something where your given a certain lot, have a degree of mobility through personal choice, but an overwhelming amount of opportunity is sealed off in red tape and its one of those things you can't really control. I myself feel driven to do things, driven to project the best of myself and make something of it, make it work, but for my own natural limits and the steadfastness of how things in my life seem to hold I'm at that point where I just have to pace myself back and if it takes a few drinks after work at night or being on here to just live life, even in a blah way, without my mind panicking like it needs a way out -well, I'm really doing the best I can realistically with what I have (realistic in the sense that while I can achieve a lot I also have an energy deficit that could fry me up, I feel like I'm stretched pretty thin most days as it is).

As for that sadness, if you feel like you can depart from the truth and live on what you want to believe without getting that nasty gut-level remorse or feeling like your rotting away in a dream - do it. If your more the later and can't find happiness like that because you end up feeling all those things, then just learn to desensitize yourself to that sadness. Those two alternatives, other than continuing self help and doing the best for yourself, are all you really can do.

I've been through that same stage myself. Atheism is an absolute which requires faith itself, open to much interpretation. I'm agnostic and open to the concept of religion. You cannot prove that there is no God, just as you cannot prove that there is a God at the current point in humanity's existence. It's a personal belief and conviction, and leaves you blind and closed. Both religious and non-religious paths should be viewed with a mind open to possibilities.