View on Genesis 1:1-2:3

Post Reply New Topic

It's a comical and rather entertaining fantasy/myth.

God created the heavens and earth and sourceless light and set time(Evening and morning) with no sun, moon, or stars the first day.

God created the sun, moon, and stars and set them to the time table he set the first day on the fourth day.

Highly impractical and funny stuff.

Is the issue of Young-Earth Creationism vs. evolution theologically significant? If so, I fail to see how. Jesus spoke in parables. I consider most of the Bible to be metaphorical rather than literal. The Bible is a series of lessons to be learned; if you simply take it as a literal history it's just boring. If you look for the deeper meaning behind each story, you may learn something valuable.
Also, on the evolution argument, I have yet to hear a pro-creationist argument from someone who had ANY idea what evolution actually claims, or who could accurately describe what the phrase "Darwin's theory of evolution" even refers to. Hint- it's not the idea that evolution occurs, it is the mechanism by which it does. Further, evolutionary theory makes no claim as to the actual origin of life, but only to the development and diversification of life. I see no reason to reject science because it disagrees with a specific interpretation of sacred texts. I still believe God created the universe and everything in it, but I don't see why the question of "how" or "when" should matter to my religion.

I believe in the doctrine of Creation. There are things that science cannot explain.

As someone who graduated from religion to spirituality, and an ongoing seeker of spiritual reality, I was fortunate to have been given a copy back in the 1970's of William Leary's long OOP "The Hidden Bible", in which practically all these issues are discussed from the viewpoint of actual biblical scholasticism.

As I'm new here, I'll be looking forward to more detailed delving into the ancient knowledge with anyone else interested, but as you know, we aspies can just go on, and on, and on and on [slaps self] sorry (grin) .. and it's already 0204 hrs here, so I'll just try to introduce a part of something that has been dear to me on these very issues, and BTW, he, too, says that "Day" means "Age, Epoch, Era," etc. in Genesis. And, that some believe Darwin got his idea from Genesis (let the earth (something that existed) bring forth from itself the vegetable kingdom (which did not exist, hence evolved from ... "brought forth" being seen as synonomous with "evolved from") .

As the book is OOP [ Copright, 1952, by C & B ANTHONY, INC., FIFTH PRINTING--MARCH, 1957 {the lawyers made me say this } ], but may sometimes be available used on the net, I would like to quote his Forward here, as it is very apropos to this discussion, and he put's it as well or better than this "Personne du Troiseme Age" aspie can:

[quote]

Much of the modern confusion as to Bible meanings, which has resulted in the formation of several hundred Christian sects, arises from the fact that the Bible is now used in a way which was never intended by the Bible writers. All the Bible manuscripts were written long before the age of printing. The hand written manuscripts were scarce and costly and were for the use of teachers, who could discuss the intended meanings with their students.

Another cause for misunderstanding is that we read the Bible in English and take it for granted that the Bible writers were free to use the wide range of words used in the English language to express varied meanings. We have specific words to express the idea of soul, spirit, mind, thought, reason, intuition, etc.

The Bible writers had no such medium of expression. No printed dictionaries contaning thousands of words were in existence in those times. Languages had been built up from natural symbols, and unlettered peoples, but few of whom could read or write, had only limited vocabularies. Even in modern English it is frequently difficult to express spiritual ideas clearly and the difficulty faced by the Bible writers can readily be imagined. It would be something like trying to explain the technicalities of the atom bomb or a vitamin pill to an American Indian in his own language.

The Bible writers were intelligent men, too intelligent to try intentionally to teach religion through stories which at face value invite skepticism and disbelief. Due to the inadequacies of ancient languages, they were compelled to explain their higher teachings in parable and allegory. In dealing with physical facts, as in the first chapter of Genesis plain language was used, but in the second chapter which describes the beginning of man's spiritual evolution, the writer had to resort to allegories to convey his meanings. To preserve knowledge of these meanings for later generations a simple code was adopted, which could be passed down orally. Oral traditon has long been known to have been an important part of Hebrew religious teaching. Much of this ancient code has been found to be recoverable, and it is explained below.

In using this code, we have to realize that the basic teaching of the Bible is human evolution; physical evolution is described in the first chapter, and the remainder of the Bible is devoted to teaching man how to advance in his spiritual evolution.

In the Bible dramas from Eve onward the feminine star represents the spiritual nature of the male character. In the allegories and stories the masculine stands for man's physical nature, and the feminine character, if any, for his spiritual nature.

Proper names are very important. Very often the meaning of the proper name has to be read as part of the context. The proper name meanings used herein are from the best authorities available.

The name means the nature or character. In the name of Jesus means in the nature or character of Jesus. Naming in the Bible means describing the nature or character.


The son means the result or product of a previous cause.

Father or Lord God means God as universal spirit. Jehovah, God as Power.

The Lord, Spirit in relation to a person. Angels, spiritual principles.

City means the individual, Gates his understanding,Temple his body.

Rivers signify spiritual currents in the human body, usually dormant, unawakened.

Mazzaroth the twelve constellation signs, also knowledge about them.

Predatory animals--lions, wolves, etc. are used to represent our concious faults which we can readily recognize; lurking animals--crocodiles, serpents etc. our subconscious faults of which we are not aware.

Earth symbolized the physical and material; Water the psychic nature; Air the spiritual nature; Fire the soul.

The ground is also a symbol for materiality. White a symbol for spirituality.

Sheep symbolize thoughts; our thoughts follow each other like sheep. The many Bible shepherds were men who led their own thoughts or those of others into better pastures. Shepherds and Wise Men have the same meaning.

Birds symbolize intuition. Based on the remarkable instinct of migrating birds.

The serpent is a symbol for mind. The caduceus, a very ancient symbol, consists of two serpents twining around a rod, representing the dual nature of mind as reason and intuition.

For a modern scientific description of what the Bible means by Spririt, we can turn to a book called "The Soul of the Universe" written by a mathematician-astronomer. He describes:

"A mysterious entity or structure which governs the motions of particles and stars, the propagation of light and radio waves, and its subtle but powerful hand reaches into every atom and every star in the universe, into the tiniest cells of plants and animals, and even into ourselves and our brains."

The Bible calls this the spirit of God, and says, "In Him we live and move and have our being." " There is nowhere that he is not.

[end quote]"

HTH

And thus you have explained how the bible-writers had borrowed from the ancient pagan beliefs which had predated Christianity by 1000s of years. Most of the bible was written in Aramaic, then translated to Hebrew, then to Greek, to Latin, and then to English, and along the way several books were rewritten altogether to account for any new events that may have occurred. The five elements (earth, water, fire, air and spirit) are represented in the pagan pentacle, which is worn with the point facing up. The Celts used symbols such as this and the Ambrosius cross as tools during worship for centuries before the Christians started using crosses as a Christian symbol. Originally, Christianity had borrowed from astrology as well, because Mazzaroth is also represented by the 12 Apostles, with Jesus as the 'Sun' of god, and the 12 ages (which Christianity is represented by Pisces the fish). Moses spoke of the Lamb of God, which is Aries, and he warned people not to worship the Golden Calf (Taurus) because that age was approaching it's end. So basically what is written in the bible is in effect code as you were saying, but because the ideas were unoriginal, they are also stories that were being passed on down the generations for people to learn from. It was never meant to be a wholly literal account of history.

Yes, that's been common since ancient times, it's called the "folk process" or some eqivalent scholastic term. Stories have been passed down from people to people, modified to suit the local needs, since time immemorial.

The codes thing is a part of all old mythology; it was specifically mentioned to me with reference to the Mahabharata by an English friend who is a Sanskrit student just a couple month's ago. To understand the real story in any mythology, as it says in the biblical codes it's important to translate proper names.

Archeologists used to think the bible was historical, but continually have learned that it's not much use in archeology after all as it really isn't physical history, only spiritual.

Some folks may be interested, in a related vein, in the Author page for James Still, which contains New Testament Scholarship info and constructive criticisms, including the search for the historical Jesus, and discusses the pagan influences previously mentioned.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/index.html

This is the foundation of the "god of the gaps" arguments.

The Bible is 2000 years old. It should be taken with a pinch of salt no matter how strong you beliefs are.

Please check your facts. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, later translated to Greek. The New Testament was written in Greek, and from these Greek manuscripts were later produced translations for a variety of languages. It did not go from Aramaic to Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English, each translation being made from the most recent translation. New translations are made and checked off of the original manuscripts written in Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT), NOT off of other translations.

I have and they are correct. Any Xian scholar worth his salt will even quote the origal Aramaic text, it's just that the fundamentalist Xians will always tend to say that the Hebrews were first. But if you reall want to split hairs about who were actually first, then try the Druids and Egyptians.

For once and for all -

YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE TORAH WITHOUT A CODE BOOK - AND YOU CAN'T READ THAT CODE BOOK WITHOUT KNOWING HEBREW!



This will explain SOMETHING that you were never taught in *sunday* school and via spin media:
http://www.meru.org/Press/Atlantisrising.html

and the VIDEO

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

This is a good piece of evidence that god doesn't care about the human race. Why would he give salvation in code?

G-D gave the Torah to Moses in same language He created the Universe in. Hebrew. Hebrew letters are the virtual building blocks of creation.
The Authenticity of the Written Torah
http://www.asknoah.org/HTML/written_torah.html

Yes, I see a big problem there, if you take a literal interpretation of the creation, on that point exactly, noticing that the earth is fully formed, with plants and trees, flowers, all of nature, except animals, that were created a day before the sun, not to mention all the stars (rest of the universe) created in just one day.

It doesn't make sense by today's knowledge and science facts that we take for granted about the earth's gravity, shape and life, impossible without the sun being there first.

Q- On the 1st day G-d said "Let there be light"... but the sun wasn't created until the fourth day?

by Rabbi Naftali Silberberg

The Talmud (Chagigah 12a) gives two explanations for this apparent problem:

1. The light which G-d created on the first day wasn't the light of the sun. Rather this was a spiritual light which would allow a person to see "from one end of the world to the other." G-d did not want evil people using this light so He hid it in the Torah. Righteous people who study the Torah can access this Divine light, and it will be available to everyone in the Messianic Era.


2. G-d created the sun and moon on the first day, but set them into their orbit on the fourth day. In fact, everything was created on the first day, G-d only developed and placed everything in their proper places in the subsequent days.

http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=173&o=18759